1996-09-240
Town of Wappinger Zoning Board of Appeals
September 24, 1996
Agenda - 7:30 P.M.
Approval of September 10, 1996 minutes.
DISCUSSIONn
rM
Town Hall
20 Middlebush Road
Wappinger Falls, N.Y.
1. Alpine Company of Poughkeepsie - Discuss Appeal 3#1227 requesting to
add (2) 2 X 12 (48 sq. ft.) signs underneath the existing 6 X 12 (72
sq. ft.) pylon sign located at the entrance of Alpine Commons on Route
9 in the Town of Wappinger.
.2. Alpine Company of Poughkeepsie - Discuss Appeal #1228 requesting the
following variances:
A. Requesting a 210 sq. ft. sign on the front of the building,
whereas 100 sq. ft. is permitted, thus requiring a 110 sq. ft.
variance.
B. Requesting (2) 3 X 33 (99 sq. ft.) signs on the south side of the
building (upper left hand corner of the building facing Route 9),.
whereas no signs are permitted, thus requiring a total 198 sq.
ft. sign variance.
C. Requesting a 210 sq. ft. sign on the south side of the building
(upper right hand corner of the building facing Route 9), whereas
no sign is permitted, thus requiring a 210 sq. ft. sign variance.
on
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Town of Wappinger Zoning Board of Appeals
September 24, 1996
Minutes
'Members Present
Mr.
Prager:
Mr.
Lehigh:
Mr.
Fanuele:
Mr.
Warren:
Members Absent
Chairman
Vice Chairman
Member
Member
Mr. diPierno: Member
others Present
Mr. Don Close,. Zoning Administrator
Mrs. Linda Nguyen, Secretary to the Z.B.A.
Igoe
Town Hall
20 Middlebush Road
Wappinger Falls; N.Y.
APPIROVED
OCT 08IN
Mr. Prager: I would like to call the Town of Wappinger Zoning Board of
Appeals to order. Can I have a roll call please?
ROLL CALL Mr. Prager: Here. Mr. Lehigh: Here.
Mr. Fanuele: Here. Mr. Warren: Here.
Mr. diPierno: Absent.
Mr. Prager: The first item of business is the approval of the September
X10. 1996 minutes.
Mr. Warren: I make a motion that we accept.
Mr. Lehigh: Second.
Vote: All present voted aye.
Mr. Prager: The next item of business on the agenda tonight is to discuss
Appeal 41227 - Alpine Company of Poughkeepsie who is requesting to add (2.)
2 X 12 (48 sq. ft.) signs underneath the existing 6 X 12 (72 sq. ft.)
pylon sign located at the entrance of Alpine Commons on Route 9 in the
Town of Wappinger.
Mr. Kellogg: I'm Ed Kellogg. I'm a partner with the Alpine Company of
Poughkeepsie. The proposal in front of you modifies our existing pylon
sign. The pylon sign right now sits just back from the edge of Route 9.
It is presently 16 feet high overall and 12 feet wide. It has Alpine
Commons in the Blue with BJ's and Super Stop & Shop. The building sits
about 360 feet back from our center median at one point and then at the
southern point, 290 feet to the corner. The building is about 25 feet
higher than the road. What we are requesting is we have a new tenant that
is called A C Moore Arts & Crafts that will open this winter. Thev will
occupy the half of the building that is closest to Route 9. It is 20;000
sq. ft. out of a 38,000 sq. ft. retail building. They will have a loading
,,,.dock in the back and some windows on the side and they will have
frontage. What we are requesting is a variance so we can put their sign
on the pylon sign. Going back in history, a year ago or so we talked
about this and at the time we didn't have a tenant and we submitted this
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Wappinger Zoning'"foard
Minutes - September 24, 1996
Page 2_
plan for Retail A and Retail B. The thought was once we had a tenant;
Wince we knew what we wanted to do architecturally, then we would come back
and talk about real life. Now, we have a real tenant. What we would like
to do is add underneath Stop & Shop and BJ's, on the same structure; we
won't modify the structure at all, two signs. One 2 feet high which would
read A C Moore Arts & Crafts. That would be the full width of the pylon,
which is 12 feet. Underneath that we would leave a blank white panel.
These are red letters on white panels. They are actually back lite with
neon just like BJ's and Stop & Shop. Underneath that, for the time being,
we will leave this blank white panel, but eventually there would be Retail
Tenant B there who will ultimately occupy the space between A C Moore and
Super_ Stop & Shop. It is the same exact construction that is out there
right now. They are white metal panels with red plastic lettering. This
will face in both directions on Route 9.
Mr. Prager: So, basically it will be similar to the type of signs already
there, but only smaller.
Mr. Kellogg: We don't touch the structure at all. When we relocated this
(pylon sign) a year and a half ago, we cut a couple of two inch panels so
that it would accommodate adding a sign in the future. The other thing,
this just came up and I promised I would bring it up. Poughkeepsie
Savings Bank is a subtenant inside Stop & Shop and this is not part of the
application, but I wanted to show you. We can apply for this later if it
is agreeable. They are inside Stop & Shop. Thev also have a freestanding
ATM that sits out in the parking lot. They've requested permission to
advertise, first of all their ATM and they would like to have
`"" advertisement for the store itself. As the landlord, we feel we have an
obligation to help them with the ATM. We don't want the pylon sign to be
too cumbersome. We don't want to ask for too much. There is two
proposals they would like us to look at. One is underneath the A C Moore
and Retail B,. just a simple 2 by 2 twenty-four hour ATM. That could be
tucked into the corner. It can be put on this side. It can be on the
outside of the pylon. They just want to tell the public as they are
driving by that there is an ATM up there in the parking lot. I guess it
is their most heavily used ATM or it was when they were over next to the
old Waldbaum's. They had a drive thru right there and now, not everybody
knows about it so they want to make certain that the public knows about
it. The other option is just the other strip. It is actually 18 inches
high and it would only be about 9 feet wide. It would tuck in between the
two pylons and that would say Poughkeepsie Savings / 24 hour ATM. I just
wanted to bring this up in front of you to get your thoughts. It isn't
part of this application. The most important thing right now is to take
care of A C Moore, the application you have in front of you. Because of
the way the site is laid out, you can't see these buildings as your
driving by on Route 9 so the pylon sign is extremely important. Like I
said, we are 25 feet higher than the road. There is vegetation on the
Route 9 right-of-way as your going by the Gray & Railing building, heading
north. There is a large clump of trees right here. It helped a lot by
moving the pylon closer. As your heading south, this is all NYS
wetlands. There is a lot of vegetation here. So, we are just trying to
increase the identity of these tenants as your driving by on Route 9,
,,,.which is difficult to begin with because everyone is going 55 MPH as they
drive by. It is not really typical of any of the strip centers anywhere
on Route 9 that are all a lot closer than 250 feet from the road and all
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Wappinger Zoning Board
Minutes - September 24; 1996
Page 3
facing the road directly. The Planning Board along with the next items on
fiche agenda has seen all of this and they wrote a letter recommending the
architectural package for the signage and the exterior buildings. Do you
want me to talk about the whole thing right now?
Mr. Prager: No, we will take that in a minute.
Mr. Fanuele: The question I have is the other 18,000 sq. ft. That is
more than one tenth. Will you be asking for another little sign just like
the Poughkeepsie Savings Bank?
Mr. Kellogg: The other 18,000 sq. ft. is going to be Retail Tenant B.
Mfr. Fanuele: Suppose you subdivide. If you get someone who wants 9,000
sa. ft. You would be asking for two signs underneath there and then with
the Poughkeepsie Savings Bank sign. Then, it will look like the ones that
we didn't care for that was in the Village.
Mr. Lehigh: Imperial Plaza for one. You get so many signs that you get
so confused. You couldn't read them even if you wanted to.
qtr. Kellogg: My highest priority is to make sure that the building is
properly identified. The ATM, we can just set it aside if that is the
feeling. Whoever goes in Retail Tenant B space, that is who I want to be
on this pylon sign.
4r. Fanuele: If Retail B winds tip to be two 9,000 sq. ft. tenants, would
N'"you ask for one sign or two signs.
Air. Kellogg: I don't see having two major tenants there. I really
don't. It doesn't really allow for two tenants. It really is just for
one more big tenant. There isn't enough frontage there between Stop &
Shoo and A C Moore_
Mr. Prager: My feeling on the ATM, and again I am only speaking for
myself, I'm really not in favor of putting another sign on that. Anybody
else have anything?
Mr. Kellogg: Tonight we are having a discussion and to set a public
hearing date, is that correct?
Mr. Prager: We would probably have it for the next meeting the public
hearing.
Mr. Kellogg: Is there any other information that you want?
Mr. Prager: I don't think so. Does anybody else want anything?
Mr. Lehigh: Did you see the letter from the County Planning Board?
Mr. Kellogg: Yes, I spoke to Lynette Thorne today, then she called back.
I discussed her concerns with her. The pylon sign she was all set. She
was concerned about the building signage and it wasn't clear what her
intent was with the building signage.
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Wappinger Zoning
�oard
Minutes - September 24, 1996
Page 4
Mr. Prager: Do you want to make a motion for Lead Agency?
Mr. Lehigh: I make a motion the ZBA be appointed Lead Agency.
Mr. Fanuele: Second.
Vote: All ayes.
Mr. Prager: Do you want to make a motion for a Neg. Dec.?
Mr. Lehigh: I think that should be reserved until we make our decision.
Mr. Prager: I would like to set the public hearing for the next meeting,
which is October 8th.
Mr. Kellogg: Does that leave enough time for the public hearing notices.
Mrs. Nguyen: Yes_
Mr. Prager: The next item of business is Alpine Company of Poughkeepsie -
To discuss Appeal 41228 requesting the following three variances: A)
Reauesting a 210 sq. ft. sign on the front of the building, whereas 100
:q. ft. is permitted; thus requiring a 110 sq. ft. variance. Bl
Reauer,tina (2) 3 X 33 (99 sq. ft.) signs on the south side of the buiidilig
(upper left hand corner of the building facing Route 9), whereas no igns
are permitted, thus requiring a total 198 sq. ft. sign variance. Ci
Requesting a 210 sq. ft. sign on the south side of the building (upper
,%W richt hand corner of the building facing Route 9), whereas no sign is
permitted, thus requiring a 210 sq. ft. sign variance.
Mr. Kellogg: Again, the building sits back 250 feet from the south
corner, 360 feet at the north west corner. We are 25 feet up from the
road. This is the plan that the Planning Board approved for Architectural
Review. It shows a yellow color on this white paper, but the colors are
basically the Stop & Shop colors. It is like a creamy white on top,
hunter green is the access strip that we are going to put across the
building to break up this big white wall and the bottom is grey. The
materials are primarily the EIFS system that is already there. There will
be some masonry in front. There will be some windows in front with
automatic doors. Alaska white is a creamy color. That is what the
Planning Board approved. That was one of the issues that we looked at a
year ago, we had a big white wall that said Retail A and Retail B. So the
request is for A C Moore to be identified on the front of their building
that faces their parking lot. Also, that they would be identified on the
side that faces Route 9. So, the front right corner as your looking at
the building and then Stop & Shop and BJ's in the back left corner, which
is the same request we had a year ago. Obviously, if someone goes in the
parking lot and they pull up to the front of the store, they want to know
where that store is. That is the principle reason for the identification
over their entrance way.
Mr. Prager: I question why there are signs on the side of the building as
-your going up the building then?
Mr. Kellogg: There is one other thing I wanted to point out. This is
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Wappinger Zoning oard
Minutes - September 24, 1996
Page 5
Stop & Shop here. So, this will be Retail B. On the side of the building
,,,,,that facing Route 9, again as I mentioned before there is vegetation
heading north and south. The building sits up so high, this would give us
no identification heading northbound because the building is at an angle.
The Gray and Railing building is there, the trees are there, you will
never see it. Heading southbound you will see it. It gives us a good
presence on Route 9 for those people driving by. It is not as important
as the pylon sign. The pylon sign you can see from a much greater
distance. We have been requested by the major tenants, Stop & Shop and
BJ's, for signage out in front. As you know, neither of them faces Route
9. which is not typical for any of these grocery stores. That is the
reason for the request; greater visibility and better identification.
Mr. Prager: Now again, to get back on the front side, the A C Moore sign
on the front of the building, why so large? Do they feel they need it
that large in that parking lot?
Mr. Kellogg: These are exactly the same size. It doesn't look the same
because that has a border around it. The A C Moore is 48 inch and the
Arts & Crafts is 30 inches. The store front is 106 feet wide. That is
the typical size they have on all 18 of their stores.
Mr. Prager: Is it bigger or is it the same size as the Stop & Shop?
Mr. Kellogg: It is smaller. Stop & Shop letters are over 7 feet high,
each letter, plus they have all the individual signs up front. BJ's is
about 7 feet high too, but their building so wide.
Mr. Lehigh: Your really asking for double the size of everything.
Mr. Kellogg: Well on the front 100 sq. ft. is allowed. The sign is 48
inches, 6 inches, space and the 30 inch letter. So, it is 7 feet high by
30 feet long. So, it is 210 sq. ft. The variance amount for the front is
110 feet. On the side, it is obviously all variance. 210 for A C Moore
and then 99 for each for Stop & Shop and BJ's. Stop & Shop & BJ's is 6
inches to the top, a 3 foot letter, a foot in the middle, and a 3 foot
letter and then the green accent strip. I did talk to the County today
because the letter wasn't clear. It was clear that the pylon she
endorsed. It was clear what her concern was about Route 9. It wasn't
clear about the signage that faces the parking lot. She said she is in
favor of that sign. I asked her if she could relay that to Don and she
spoke to Don.
Mr. Close: She called this afternoon. Because the letter sounded a
little confusing, she wanted to set it straight that she was only
concerned with the signs facing Route 9, not the signs facing the parking
lot.
Mr. Prager: The sign on the front of the building, how high is the
lettering going to be?
Mr. Kellogg: Seven feet from top to bottom, 7 by 30. What we are trying
to do here so that this will look decent is that we are lining up this
green band. There is a canopy for Stop & Shop so whoever goes in the
middle we will just extend the canopy going across. This is a canopv as
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Wappinger Zoning Board
Minutes - September 24, 1996
Page 6
well and it sticks out about 6 feet from the building. So, that will give
*,,wzhis thing some dimension.
Mr. Lehigh: So, when you get the new tenant your going to carry the whole
thing across?
Mr. Kellogg: Then, we will do another canopy. We will carry the stripe
across and we will do another canopy at the same elevation for the new
tenant.
Mr. Lehigh: Can you do the same on the back? Your going to have to do
that anyway. Wouldn't that be just as well to do the back on this?
Mr. Kellogg: We will carry the colors right across.
Mr. Lehigh: I mean, wouldn't it be just as nice to do it right now and
look a lot better?
Mr. Kellogg: The only thing is with these strip centers because this back
is a little bit visible as your heading south, they will want their own
colors on the back of their building.
Mr. Lehigh: They may not get it if it is going to be different than the
colors that you have there. You may not be allowed to have that. I would
think if your going to do the building those colors that you would want to
carry it all the way across rather than have another ..
*OwMr. Kellogg: Well whatever they have in the front, they will want in the
back of their space as well. It will be compatible with the colors that
are there on Stop & Shop. I don't think it will vary a lot. We're going
to encourage that they use the same colors right across. It is simple.
This is just a loading dock back here.
Mr. Lehigh: It is quite a visible loading dock. It is quite a visible
area from Route 9. It just makes sense to me to carry it right across.
Mr. Fanuele: I think it should be uniform right across.
Mr. Prager: Does the tenant pay for the painting or do you?
Mr. Kellogg: We do that. It is not a major item in terms of cost, but
whatever we do right now Like right now we are going to have to cut a
hole in the back wall here to build a loading dock. So, we don't know
what is going to happen back here. Are they are going to have their
loading dock here or over here? So, before we start making improvements
and then have to destroy things, we wanted to wait until we know.
Mfr. Lehigh: That sounds reasonable, but I wouldn't want you to come out
with purple or yellow.
Mr. Fanuele: If the paint is really not that big of an expense, why don't
you paint it all up now? If you have to put in a loading dock, then you
Dnly have to touch it up with the same colors.
Mr. Lehiah: It would even make it easier to rent if it looked classy.
on
Mr. Prager: Anybody else have anything?
Wappinqer Zoning Board
Minutes - September 24, 1996
Page 7
Mr. Warren: I have a question. Under B, EIFS stands for ..?
Mr. Kellogg: Exterior Insulation Finish System. It is drivit. It is a
plaster system where they trowel on the plaster.
Mr. Close: The whole back of Bob's is that way.
Mr. Kellogg: All of BJ's is that way.
Mr. Fanuele: I agree with Al about the color schemes. It would finish it
off.
Mr. Warren: It would give it all a nice appearance.
Mr. Fanuele: (Too low)
Mr. Kellogg: Ultimately that will be a request. I brought this plan to
show what we did. This bottom elevation, we had Stop & Shop and Tenant A
and Tenant B. At some point whoever that is going to be .. If this is
approved, they will see the other tenants up there and they will want to
be up there as well. I can bring up the comment about carrying the colors
across the back. I will bounce it off the Planning Board.
Mr. Fanuele: Bounce it off the Planning Board?
*%.
Mr. Kellogg: Well the Planning Board approved this for Architectural
Review.
Mr. Fanuele: Well, we can tell the Planning Board that we want the colors
all the way across.
Mr. Kellogg: This is a split face block building right here. This is
where we have our water treatment system and electrical room. So, it
would stop right here at this double line.
Mr. Fanuele: If the Planning Board said that it is okay the way it is, I
still wouldn't approve it. So, it is has to go all the way across. You
don't have to bounce it off the Planning Board.
Mr. Kellogg: Fine.
Mr. Prager: That is kind of where we make our decision. Can I have a
motion for Lead Agency?
Mr. Fanuele: I make a motion for Lead Agency.
Mr. Lehigh: Second.
Vote: All present voted aye.
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Mr. Prager: Will we have a Neg. Dec. on this?
0.
Mr. Fanuele:
N.,revisit?
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Wappinger Zoning Board
Minutes - September 24; 1996
Page 8
I would like to wait. The other question is, should we
Mr. Prager: If you want to, we can.
SITE INSPECTION SET FOR SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 28, 1996 AT 9 IN THE MORNING.
Mr. Kellogg: Do you do this alone? Do you want me to meet you there?
Mr. Lehigh: It is up to you, but we don't really need you.
Mr. Prager: Basically, all we want to do is see what the building looks
like now. It is not really imperative that you have to be there. If you
want to be there, that is up to you.
Mr. Kellogg: I'm available_
Mr. Prager: We will make the public hearing for the same night October
8th (Same as Appeal #$1227)_
Mr. Fanuele: I make a motion to close.
Mr. Warren: Second.
Vote: All present voted aye.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 8:00 P.M.
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Respectfully submitted,
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Mrs. Linda Nguyen, Secretary
Town of Wappinger Zoning Board of Appeals
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