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1996-09-240 Town of Wappinger Zoning Board of Appeals September 24, 1996 Agenda - 7:30 P.M. Approval of September 10, 1996 minutes. DISCUSSIONn rM Town Hall 20 Middlebush Road Wappinger Falls, N.Y. 1. Alpine Company of Poughkeepsie - Discuss Appeal 3#1227 requesting to add (2) 2 X 12 (48 sq. ft.) signs underneath the existing 6 X 12 (72 sq. ft.) pylon sign located at the entrance of Alpine Commons on Route 9 in the Town of Wappinger. .2. Alpine Company of Poughkeepsie - Discuss Appeal #1228 requesting the following variances: A. Requesting a 210 sq. ft. sign on the front of the building, whereas 100 sq. ft. is permitted, thus requiring a 110 sq. ft. variance. B. Requesting (2) 3 X 33 (99 sq. ft.) signs on the south side of the building (upper left hand corner of the building facing Route 9),. whereas no signs are permitted, thus requiring a total 198 sq. ft. sign variance. C. Requesting a 210 sq. ft. sign on the south side of the building (upper right hand corner of the building facing Route 9), whereas no sign is permitted, thus requiring a 210 sq. ft. sign variance. on `\r Town of Wappinger Zoning Board of Appeals September 24, 1996 Minutes 'Members Present Mr. Prager: Mr. Lehigh: Mr. Fanuele: Mr. Warren: Members Absent Chairman Vice Chairman Member Member Mr. diPierno: Member others Present Mr. Don Close,. Zoning Administrator Mrs. Linda Nguyen, Secretary to the Z.B.A. Igoe Town Hall 20 Middlebush Road Wappinger Falls; N.Y. APPIROVED OCT 08IN Mr. Prager: I would like to call the Town of Wappinger Zoning Board of Appeals to order. Can I have a roll call please? ROLL CALL Mr. Prager: Here. Mr. Lehigh: Here. Mr. Fanuele: Here. Mr. Warren: Here. Mr. diPierno: Absent. Mr. Prager: The first item of business is the approval of the September X10. 1996 minutes. Mr. Warren: I make a motion that we accept. Mr. Lehigh: Second. Vote: All present voted aye. Mr. Prager: The next item of business on the agenda tonight is to discuss Appeal 41227 - Alpine Company of Poughkeepsie who is requesting to add (2.) 2 X 12 (48 sq. ft.) signs underneath the existing 6 X 12 (72 sq. ft.) pylon sign located at the entrance of Alpine Commons on Route 9 in the Town of Wappinger. Mr. Kellogg: I'm Ed Kellogg. I'm a partner with the Alpine Company of Poughkeepsie. The proposal in front of you modifies our existing pylon sign. The pylon sign right now sits just back from the edge of Route 9. It is presently 16 feet high overall and 12 feet wide. It has Alpine Commons in the Blue with BJ's and Super Stop & Shop. The building sits about 360 feet back from our center median at one point and then at the southern point, 290 feet to the corner. The building is about 25 feet higher than the road. What we are requesting is we have a new tenant that is called A C Moore Arts & Crafts that will open this winter. Thev will occupy the half of the building that is closest to Route 9. It is 20;000 sq. ft. out of a 38,000 sq. ft. retail building. They will have a loading ,,,.dock in the back and some windows on the side and they will have frontage. What we are requesting is a variance so we can put their sign on the pylon sign. Going back in history, a year ago or so we talked about this and at the time we didn't have a tenant and we submitted this 1*4W Wappinger Zoning'"foard Minutes - September 24, 1996 Page 2_ plan for Retail A and Retail B. The thought was once we had a tenant; Wince we knew what we wanted to do architecturally, then we would come back and talk about real life. Now, we have a real tenant. What we would like to do is add underneath Stop & Shop and BJ's, on the same structure; we won't modify the structure at all, two signs. One 2 feet high which would read A C Moore Arts & Crafts. That would be the full width of the pylon, which is 12 feet. Underneath that we would leave a blank white panel. These are red letters on white panels. They are actually back lite with neon just like BJ's and Stop & Shop. Underneath that, for the time being, we will leave this blank white panel, but eventually there would be Retail Tenant B there who will ultimately occupy the space between A C Moore and Super_ Stop & Shop. It is the same exact construction that is out there right now. They are white metal panels with red plastic lettering. This will face in both directions on Route 9. Mr. Prager: So, basically it will be similar to the type of signs already there, but only smaller. Mr. Kellogg: We don't touch the structure at all. When we relocated this (pylon sign) a year and a half ago, we cut a couple of two inch panels so that it would accommodate adding a sign in the future. The other thing, this just came up and I promised I would bring it up. Poughkeepsie Savings Bank is a subtenant inside Stop & Shop and this is not part of the application, but I wanted to show you. We can apply for this later if it is agreeable. They are inside Stop & Shop. Thev also have a freestanding ATM that sits out in the parking lot. They've requested permission to advertise, first of all their ATM and they would like to have `"" advertisement for the store itself. As the landlord, we feel we have an obligation to help them with the ATM. We don't want the pylon sign to be too cumbersome. We don't want to ask for too much. There is two proposals they would like us to look at. One is underneath the A C Moore and Retail B,. just a simple 2 by 2 twenty-four hour ATM. That could be tucked into the corner. It can be put on this side. It can be on the outside of the pylon. They just want to tell the public as they are driving by that there is an ATM up there in the parking lot. I guess it is their most heavily used ATM or it was when they were over next to the old Waldbaum's. They had a drive thru right there and now, not everybody knows about it so they want to make certain that the public knows about it. The other option is just the other strip. It is actually 18 inches high and it would only be about 9 feet wide. It would tuck in between the two pylons and that would say Poughkeepsie Savings / 24 hour ATM. I just wanted to bring this up in front of you to get your thoughts. It isn't part of this application. The most important thing right now is to take care of A C Moore, the application you have in front of you. Because of the way the site is laid out, you can't see these buildings as your driving by on Route 9 so the pylon sign is extremely important. Like I said, we are 25 feet higher than the road. There is vegetation on the Route 9 right-of-way as your going by the Gray & Railing building, heading north. There is a large clump of trees right here. It helped a lot by moving the pylon closer. As your heading south, this is all NYS wetlands. There is a lot of vegetation here. So, we are just trying to increase the identity of these tenants as your driving by on Route 9, ,,,.which is difficult to begin with because everyone is going 55 MPH as they drive by. It is not really typical of any of the strip centers anywhere on Route 9 that are all a lot closer than 250 feet from the road and all on Wappinger Zoning Board Minutes - September 24; 1996 Page 3 facing the road directly. The Planning Board along with the next items on fiche agenda has seen all of this and they wrote a letter recommending the architectural package for the signage and the exterior buildings. Do you want me to talk about the whole thing right now? Mr. Prager: No, we will take that in a minute. Mr. Fanuele: The question I have is the other 18,000 sq. ft. That is more than one tenth. Will you be asking for another little sign just like the Poughkeepsie Savings Bank? Mr. Kellogg: The other 18,000 sq. ft. is going to be Retail Tenant B. Mfr. Fanuele: Suppose you subdivide. If you get someone who wants 9,000 sa. ft. You would be asking for two signs underneath there and then with the Poughkeepsie Savings Bank sign. Then, it will look like the ones that we didn't care for that was in the Village. Mr. Lehigh: Imperial Plaza for one. You get so many signs that you get so confused. You couldn't read them even if you wanted to. qtr. Kellogg: My highest priority is to make sure that the building is properly identified. The ATM, we can just set it aside if that is the feeling. Whoever goes in Retail Tenant B space, that is who I want to be on this pylon sign. 4r. Fanuele: If Retail B winds tip to be two 9,000 sq. ft. tenants, would N'"you ask for one sign or two signs. Air. Kellogg: I don't see having two major tenants there. I really don't. It doesn't really allow for two tenants. It really is just for one more big tenant. There isn't enough frontage there between Stop & Shoo and A C Moore_ Mr. Prager: My feeling on the ATM, and again I am only speaking for myself, I'm really not in favor of putting another sign on that. Anybody else have anything? Mr. Kellogg: Tonight we are having a discussion and to set a public hearing date, is that correct? Mr. Prager: We would probably have it for the next meeting the public hearing. Mr. Kellogg: Is there any other information that you want? Mr. Prager: I don't think so. Does anybody else want anything? Mr. Lehigh: Did you see the letter from the County Planning Board? Mr. Kellogg: Yes, I spoke to Lynette Thorne today, then she called back. I discussed her concerns with her. The pylon sign she was all set. She was concerned about the building signage and it wasn't clear what her intent was with the building signage. it Wappinger Zoning �oard Minutes - September 24, 1996 Page 4 Mr. Prager: Do you want to make a motion for Lead Agency? Mr. Lehigh: I make a motion the ZBA be appointed Lead Agency. Mr. Fanuele: Second. Vote: All ayes. Mr. Prager: Do you want to make a motion for a Neg. Dec.? Mr. Lehigh: I think that should be reserved until we make our decision. Mr. Prager: I would like to set the public hearing for the next meeting, which is October 8th. Mr. Kellogg: Does that leave enough time for the public hearing notices. Mrs. Nguyen: Yes_ Mr. Prager: The next item of business is Alpine Company of Poughkeepsie - To discuss Appeal 41228 requesting the following three variances: A) Reauesting a 210 sq. ft. sign on the front of the building, whereas 100 :q. ft. is permitted; thus requiring a 110 sq. ft. variance. Bl Reauer,tina (2) 3 X 33 (99 sq. ft.) signs on the south side of the buiidilig (upper left hand corner of the building facing Route 9), whereas no igns are permitted, thus requiring a total 198 sq. ft. sign variance. Ci Requesting a 210 sq. ft. sign on the south side of the building (upper ,%W richt hand corner of the building facing Route 9), whereas no sign is permitted, thus requiring a 210 sq. ft. sign variance. Mr. Kellogg: Again, the building sits back 250 feet from the south corner, 360 feet at the north west corner. We are 25 feet up from the road. This is the plan that the Planning Board approved for Architectural Review. It shows a yellow color on this white paper, but the colors are basically the Stop & Shop colors. It is like a creamy white on top, hunter green is the access strip that we are going to put across the building to break up this big white wall and the bottom is grey. The materials are primarily the EIFS system that is already there. There will be some masonry in front. There will be some windows in front with automatic doors. Alaska white is a creamy color. That is what the Planning Board approved. That was one of the issues that we looked at a year ago, we had a big white wall that said Retail A and Retail B. So the request is for A C Moore to be identified on the front of their building that faces their parking lot. Also, that they would be identified on the side that faces Route 9. So, the front right corner as your looking at the building and then Stop & Shop and BJ's in the back left corner, which is the same request we had a year ago. Obviously, if someone goes in the parking lot and they pull up to the front of the store, they want to know where that store is. That is the principle reason for the identification over their entrance way. Mr. Prager: I question why there are signs on the side of the building as -your going up the building then? Mr. Kellogg: There is one other thing I wanted to point out. This is cm Wappinger Zoning oard Minutes - September 24, 1996 Page 5 Stop & Shop here. So, this will be Retail B. On the side of the building ,,,,,that facing Route 9, again as I mentioned before there is vegetation heading north and south. The building sits up so high, this would give us no identification heading northbound because the building is at an angle. The Gray and Railing building is there, the trees are there, you will never see it. Heading southbound you will see it. It gives us a good presence on Route 9 for those people driving by. It is not as important as the pylon sign. The pylon sign you can see from a much greater distance. We have been requested by the major tenants, Stop & Shop and BJ's, for signage out in front. As you know, neither of them faces Route 9. which is not typical for any of these grocery stores. That is the reason for the request; greater visibility and better identification. Mr. Prager: Now again, to get back on the front side, the A C Moore sign on the front of the building, why so large? Do they feel they need it that large in that parking lot? Mr. Kellogg: These are exactly the same size. It doesn't look the same because that has a border around it. The A C Moore is 48 inch and the Arts & Crafts is 30 inches. The store front is 106 feet wide. That is the typical size they have on all 18 of their stores. Mr. Prager: Is it bigger or is it the same size as the Stop & Shop? Mr. Kellogg: It is smaller. Stop & Shop letters are over 7 feet high, each letter, plus they have all the individual signs up front. BJ's is about 7 feet high too, but their building so wide. Mr. Lehigh: Your really asking for double the size of everything. Mr. Kellogg: Well on the front 100 sq. ft. is allowed. The sign is 48 inches, 6 inches, space and the 30 inch letter. So, it is 7 feet high by 30 feet long. So, it is 210 sq. ft. The variance amount for the front is 110 feet. On the side, it is obviously all variance. 210 for A C Moore and then 99 for each for Stop & Shop and BJ's. Stop & Shop & BJ's is 6 inches to the top, a 3 foot letter, a foot in the middle, and a 3 foot letter and then the green accent strip. I did talk to the County today because the letter wasn't clear. It was clear that the pylon she endorsed. It was clear what her concern was about Route 9. It wasn't clear about the signage that faces the parking lot. She said she is in favor of that sign. I asked her if she could relay that to Don and she spoke to Don. Mr. Close: She called this afternoon. Because the letter sounded a little confusing, she wanted to set it straight that she was only concerned with the signs facing Route 9, not the signs facing the parking lot. Mr. Prager: The sign on the front of the building, how high is the lettering going to be? Mr. Kellogg: Seven feet from top to bottom, 7 by 30. What we are trying to do here so that this will look decent is that we are lining up this green band. There is a canopy for Stop & Shop so whoever goes in the middle we will just extend the canopy going across. This is a canopv as " �..yid►' Wappinger Zoning Board Minutes - September 24, 1996 Page 6 well and it sticks out about 6 feet from the building. So, that will give *,,wzhis thing some dimension. Mr. Lehigh: So, when you get the new tenant your going to carry the whole thing across? Mr. Kellogg: Then, we will do another canopy. We will carry the stripe across and we will do another canopy at the same elevation for the new tenant. Mr. Lehigh: Can you do the same on the back? Your going to have to do that anyway. Wouldn't that be just as well to do the back on this? Mr. Kellogg: We will carry the colors right across. Mr. Lehigh: I mean, wouldn't it be just as nice to do it right now and look a lot better? Mr. Kellogg: The only thing is with these strip centers because this back is a little bit visible as your heading south, they will want their own colors on the back of their building. Mr. Lehigh: They may not get it if it is going to be different than the colors that you have there. You may not be allowed to have that. I would think if your going to do the building those colors that you would want to carry it all the way across rather than have another .. *OwMr. Kellogg: Well whatever they have in the front, they will want in the back of their space as well. It will be compatible with the colors that are there on Stop & Shop. I don't think it will vary a lot. We're going to encourage that they use the same colors right across. It is simple. This is just a loading dock back here. Mr. Lehigh: It is quite a visible loading dock. It is quite a visible area from Route 9. It just makes sense to me to carry it right across. Mr. Fanuele: I think it should be uniform right across. Mr. Prager: Does the tenant pay for the painting or do you? Mr. Kellogg: We do that. It is not a major item in terms of cost, but whatever we do right now Like right now we are going to have to cut a hole in the back wall here to build a loading dock. So, we don't know what is going to happen back here. Are they are going to have their loading dock here or over here? So, before we start making improvements and then have to destroy things, we wanted to wait until we know. Mfr. Lehigh: That sounds reasonable, but I wouldn't want you to come out with purple or yellow. Mr. Fanuele: If the paint is really not that big of an expense, why don't you paint it all up now? If you have to put in a loading dock, then you Dnly have to touch it up with the same colors. Mr. Lehiah: It would even make it easier to rent if it looked classy. on Mr. Prager: Anybody else have anything? Wappinqer Zoning Board Minutes - September 24, 1996 Page 7 Mr. Warren: I have a question. Under B, EIFS stands for ..? Mr. Kellogg: Exterior Insulation Finish System. It is drivit. It is a plaster system where they trowel on the plaster. Mr. Close: The whole back of Bob's is that way. Mr. Kellogg: All of BJ's is that way. Mr. Fanuele: I agree with Al about the color schemes. It would finish it off. Mr. Warren: It would give it all a nice appearance. Mr. Fanuele: (Too low) Mr. Kellogg: Ultimately that will be a request. I brought this plan to show what we did. This bottom elevation, we had Stop & Shop and Tenant A and Tenant B. At some point whoever that is going to be .. If this is approved, they will see the other tenants up there and they will want to be up there as well. I can bring up the comment about carrying the colors across the back. I will bounce it off the Planning Board. Mr. Fanuele: Bounce it off the Planning Board? *%. Mr. Kellogg: Well the Planning Board approved this for Architectural Review. Mr. Fanuele: Well, we can tell the Planning Board that we want the colors all the way across. Mr. Kellogg: This is a split face block building right here. This is where we have our water treatment system and electrical room. So, it would stop right here at this double line. Mr. Fanuele: If the Planning Board said that it is okay the way it is, I still wouldn't approve it. So, it is has to go all the way across. You don't have to bounce it off the Planning Board. Mr. Kellogg: Fine. Mr. Prager: That is kind of where we make our decision. Can I have a motion for Lead Agency? Mr. Fanuele: I make a motion for Lead Agency. Mr. Lehigh: Second. Vote: All present voted aye. 'tr Mr. Prager: Will we have a Neg. Dec. on this? 0. Mr. Fanuele: N.,revisit? .i` Wappinger Zoning Board Minutes - September 24; 1996 Page 8 I would like to wait. The other question is, should we Mr. Prager: If you want to, we can. SITE INSPECTION SET FOR SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 28, 1996 AT 9 IN THE MORNING. Mr. Kellogg: Do you do this alone? Do you want me to meet you there? Mr. Lehigh: It is up to you, but we don't really need you. Mr. Prager: Basically, all we want to do is see what the building looks like now. It is not really imperative that you have to be there. If you want to be there, that is up to you. Mr. Kellogg: I'm available_ Mr. Prager: We will make the public hearing for the same night October 8th (Same as Appeal #$1227)_ Mr. Fanuele: I make a motion to close. Mr. Warren: Second. Vote: All present voted aye. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 8:00 P.M. '4r Respectfully submitted, / Mrs. Linda Nguyen, Secretary Town of Wappinger Zoning Board of Appeals *4w