1994-03-22NOW
Town of Wappinger Zoning Board of Appeals
March 22, 1994
`.► Agenda - 7:30 P.M.
Town Hall
20 Middlebush Road
Wappinger Falls, N.Y.
Approval of the January 25th and February 15th minutes.
PUBLIC HEARING:
Appeal 41165 - At the request of Wappinger Associates which are seeking a
variance of Article IV, Section 473.2 (Size of parking spaces) and Article
IV, Section 474 (Off street parking requirements) as follows:
A. Wappinger Associates proposes to maintain parking spaces with a width
of nine feet (91) instead of the required minimum with of ten feet
(101), requiring a size variance of 1' per parking space;
B. Wappinger Associates proposes to maintain 685 existing parking spaces
instead of the required minimum amount of 803 parking spaces,
requiring a 118 parking space variance.
The property is located at the intersection of Route 9 and Myers Corners
Road and identified as Tax Grid #19-6157-02-653974-00 in the Town of
Wappinger. It is proposed to use the subject property for the
construction of an Old Country Buffet restaurant in accordance with the
Amended Site Plan dated July 19, 1993, last revised November 12, 1993 and
prepared by Gray, Railing & Heinsman, Engineering & Surveying, P.C.
Please take further notice, the Zoning Board of Appeals has declared
itself Lead Agency and has made a Negative Declaration of Significance for
this project on February 15, 1994.
on
09
Town of Wappinger Zoning Board of Appeals
March 22, 1994
Minutes
Members Present
Mr. Hirkala: Acting Chairman Mr. Lehigh:
Mr. Bitterlich: Member Mr. Prager:
Members Absent
Mr. Sasser: Chairman
Others Present
Mr. Levenson, Zoning Administrator
Dawn Idema, Secretary to the Z.B.R.
-moo,
Town Hall
20 Middlebush Road
Wappinger Falls, N.Y.
Member
Member
APPROVED
NAY. 24 Wt
R AWM SOARO
10N" SOARO OF APPFXS
Mr. Hirkala: Called meeting to order. In Mr. Sasser's place, I will
assume the role of chairman at his request. I don't see anyone in the
audience but in case of an emergency you should exit through the back
doors and there is also no smoking in the building. The first item on the
agenda is the approval of the January 25th and February 15th minutes.
Mr. Bitterlich: I move that they both be accepted.
Mr. Prager: Second.
Vote: All ayes.
Mr. Hirkala: Public Hearing - Appeal #1165 - At the request of Wappinger
Associates which are seeking a variance of Article IV, Section 473.2 (Size
of parking spaces) and Article IV, Section 474 (Off Street Parking
requirements) as follows: Wappinger Associates proposes to maintain
parking spaces with a width of nine feet (91) instead of the required
minimum width of ten feet (101), requiring a size variance of 1' per
parking space; Wappinger Associates proposes to maintain 685 existing
parking spaces instead of the required minimum amount of 803 parking
spaces, requiring a 118 parking space variance. The property is located
at the intersection of Route 9 and Myers Corners Road and identified as
Tax Grid #19-6157-02-653974-00 in the Town of Wappinger. It is proposed
to use the subject property for the construction of an Old Country Buffet
restaurant in accordance with the Amended Site Plan dated July 19, 1993,
last revised November 12, 1993 and prepared by Gray, Railing & Heinsman,
Engineering & Surveying, P.C.. Please take further notice, the Zoning
Hoard of Appeals has declared itself Lead Agency and has made a Negative
Declaration of Significance for this project on February 15, 1994.
Mr. Levenson: Mr. Chairman, the advertising has been done, we have a paid
bill and the green cards have all been returned.
)%W
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Wappinger Zoning Board
Minutes - March 22, 1994
Page 2
vr.r
Mr. Hirkala: Is there anyone here representing Wappinger Associates? Mr.
Gray.
Mr. Bitterlich: I make a motion to open the public hearing.
Mr. Lehigh: Second.
Vote: All ayes.
Mr. Hirkala: For the record, there is nobody from the public present to
speak for or against this appeal. We will leave the public he open
in case someone comes in.
Mr. Gray: I wrote a letter on February 24, 1994.
Mr. Levenson: The board has received it. They received the packet on my
letter of March 7th (reading letter). Attached you will please find the
following documents that will be used at the public hearing to be held on
Tuesday, March 22, 1994. 1. Letter of explanation from Gray, Railing Sr
Heinsman regarding the history of the site from the inceptions. 2.
Parking layout dated October 16, 1978, last revised March 8, 1980, drawn
by Richard G. Barger, L.S., P.E.. 3. Parking layout dated July 16, 1981,
last revised June 20, 1983, drawn by Richard G. Barger, L.S., P.E.. 4.
Amended site plan for Old Country Buffet, dated July 19, 1993, last
revised March 2, 1994. If you have any further questions, please feel
free to call upon the undersigned at your earliest convenience. Mr.
Chairman, there has been a lot of research done by both Bob and I. Bob's
letter will give you the summation of the research that was done.
Mr. Hirkala: I don't think the letter has to be read but, for the record,
I think it should be a part of the minutes. Will someone give me a motion
to make the letter part of the minutes?
Mr. Bitterlich: I'll make that motion.
Mr. Prager: Second..
Vote: All ayes.
COPY OF LETTER FROM ROBERT J. GRAY OF GRAY, RAILING & HEINSMAN IS
ATTACHED.
Mr. Hirkala: Are there any other comments?
Mr. Gray: In going through this, as Herb says, it got kind of
complicated. Part of which complicated this was that some Planning Board
minutes are missing from around 1979, right when this thing was approved,
there are about three or four months missing. We were originally looking
for them when the variance went into plan. Going through this, Fre
originally thought that there were 803 spaces required. It is in this
letter, we believe that it is more like 736. Herb has had a chance to
look at that and I think he is in agreement with that. Which would make
the variance then _..
Mr. Hirkala: So what you are saying is that the reduction in parking
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Wappinger Zoning Board
Minutes - March 22, 1994
Page 3
spaces is non -conforming ....
Mr. Gray: No, it reduces the amount of the requested variance.
Mr. Hirkala: Under today's ordinance it would be 803.
Mr. Gray: No, it would be 736.
Mr. Hirkala: Under today's ordinance?
Mr. Gray: And there are 685 there now. So the variance ....
Mr. Bitterlich: So you are reducing the requirement for the variance.
Mr. Gray: That is right. If you were to grant a variance it would be
only for 51 spaces where as the first time you saw this you thought it was
103.
Mr. Hirkala: What were the conditions under which you arrived at the 803
figure?
Mr. Gray: We took a better look at the uses and the square footages and
got a little more accurate with it.
Mr. Hirkala: So this actual variance would be only ....
Mr. Gray: 51.
Mr. Levenson: 51 spaces.
Mr. Gray: In terms of the parking space size, there was an ordinance
effective from 1963 to 1980. That is this one right here. This project
was originally approved in 1978 or 1979 so it would have been under that
ordinance. I think it was late 178 or early 179.
Mr. Bitterlich: What did the ordinance call for?
Mr. Levenson: No size on parking spaces.
Mr. Gray: There is no size specified in that ordinance.
Mr. Levenson: Nothing. you could have put an 8' X 10' spot in there.
Mr. Hirkala: 10' X 20' was a figure that was always around. I think that
might have been a policy of the Planning Board or it may have been a
subdivision regulation, I don't know.
Mr. Gray: I remember working with Hans Gunderud at the time and we were
researching parking space sizes, looking at all of the other towns.
LaGrange is 9 1/2' wide even to this day. Then in 1980 there was a new
%aw ordinance and that was effective 1980 - 1991, in that ordinance it was
specified 10' X 201. The current ordinance which came into effect in 1991
also specifies 10' X 201. These spaces existed prior to that ordinance so
it is my belief that these become non -conforming ...
Wappinger Zoning Board
Minutes - March 22, 1994
Page 4
Mr. Hirkala: If that is the case, if that is a fact ..
Mr. Gray: You can grant the variance but the fact is that it is
non -conforming ... they existed..
Mr. Hirkala: If the 9' space existed and pre -dated the 1980 ordinance ...
when was the project built?
Mr. Gray: 179 - 180.
Mr. Levenson: Approved, the first phase of the job was approved before
the 180 ordinance was adopted. It was in the spring. The new ordinance
was approved, I believe sometime in the early fall.
Mr. Hirkala: I think it was October.
Mr. Bitterlich: In other words, this project was already up?
Mr. Levenson: Yes.
Mr. Hirkala: If that is the case, then the 9' is legally non -conforming.
Mr. Levenson: I just want to assure you that Bob and I really looked at
this really hard.
Mr. Bitterlich: If this place was being used for any other purpose, other
than this restaurant, would that change the required spaces?
Mr. Levenson: No, you have to understand something, all of the spaces in
the parking lot measure 9' wide.
Mr. Bitterlich: No, if this were not Old Country Buffet, if it were a
hardware store or whatever, would it have any effect on the number of
spaces required in the parking lot?
Mr. Gray: Actually it would. Retail is one space per 150 and restaurant
Mr. Levenson: He's talking about size.
Mr. Hirkala: No.
Mr. Levenson: Oh, O.K., I'm sorry.
Mr. Gray: Under the current ordinance.
Mr. Bitterlich: What does it say?
Mr. Gray: One per 100 for a restaurant and one per 150 for retail. In
the original ordinance it was approved under it was one space for 50 sq.
,r, ft. patron area.
Mr. Hirkala: So what you are saying is that there are higher requirements
for the restaurant.
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Wappinger Zoning Board
Minutes - March 22, 1994
Page 5
Mr. Bitterlich: Under the current ordinance, but under the old ordinance
that the project was originally approved by, there was no distinction
between hardware store or restaurant.
Mr. Gray: There was a distinction. Let me read it to you. For a
restaurant you needed one space for every 50 sq. ft. of patron area. For
retail you needed one space for every 100 sq. ft. of retail area. It is
kind of hard to say ....
Mr. Levenson: It is very difficult to administer too. That is why in
1980 they wrote it the way they did..
Mr. Gray: The way that plan was approved was, they just took one space
per 100 sq. ft. of retail area and that was it. In other words, there was
106,000 sq. ft., roughly, of building area. It assumes 71,600 sq. ft. of
retail area. They did not distinguish between restaurant ..
Mr. Hirkala: Was this all part of the Resolution of Approval by the
Planning Board?
Mr. Gray: I couldn't find it.
Mr. Hirkala: I'm going back in my mind when this thing was approved and I
know the general discussions that were taking place. I swear, but there
is no way that I can prove it, one of the conditions, in my mind, that was
placed on this plaza was restaurants were not going to be in the main.
building. That is why the parking was based on retail. There weren't
going to be any eating places in the main part of the building. All of
the eating places were going to be outside. Roy Rogers was suppose to
have been behind the Mobil Gas Station.
Mr. Lehigh: But they have always had eating places in there. There was a
restaurant _..
Mr. Hirkala: Pizza Barn.
Mr. Lehigh: There was a pizza parlor and there was a bar in there also.
They had food. There was a restaurant.
Mr. Lehigh: How many people is this new restaurant going to seat?
Mr. Gray: Almost 300.
Mr. Lehigh: My only problem with the whole thing is that you are crowded
in that shopping center as it is right now.
Mr. Levenson: There is plenty of open space. I have never seen ...
Mr. Lehigh: I have, I go over there probably once a day.
Mr. Bitterlich: I do too. It gets very crowded in there but I can't see
what we can do about it. You can't do anything about it because the plan
is approved. It was approved with what they have.
Mr. Gray: What we did do with the Planning Board was .... we said that we
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Wappinger Zoning Board
Minutes - March 22, 1994
Page 6
would make sure that all of the employees park in the back. There are
plenty of spaces in the back that aren't used.
Mr. Levenson: The landlord has written a letter.
Mr. Hirkala: One of the things that I have looked at this winter, just
with the construction alone, I couldn't find a place to park to go into
Channel because of the construction trailer and the construction vehicles
and the people that are working on the project are parking in all of the
spaces. Plus the snow. I think the owners of the plaza could remove some
of the snow. A lot of the parking spaces are messed up because of the
snow piles.
Mr. Lehigh: Snow removal, when you are talking about getting a loader in
there at $80.00 or $90.00 an hour, a driver and a truck and haul that
away, you are talking some big bucks.
Mr. Hirkala: What do you think they do every place else? What do you
think they do in N.Y.C. and in other highly populated areas?
Mr. Bitterlich: It just seems to me that all we can do is make a
suggestion .....
Mr. Lehigh: I've seen the N.Y.C. streets where the cars are plowed in for
2 or 3 days and couldn't move. That shopping center, I would have to say,
`- is taken care of a lot better than that.
Mr. Hirkala: That shopping center was a disaster this year.
Mr. Lehigh: There is not much you can do with the snow. There is one
area that is under utilized which is that one parking lot on the side of
waldbaums. Very seldom is that area full.
Mr. Hirkala: That is where Roy Rogers was suppose to be. That is the
whole problem with that plaza. The whole problem with that plaza is that
is where Roy Rogers was suppose to be and that area in the front was
suppose to be open to the rest of the businesses.
Mr. Prager: The other thing too that you have to look at, the only one
that is probably going to get hurt from this is the people that have
businesses in there. If the parking lots are all full, the cars can't go
in it. They are going to say, "The heck with it".
Mr. Bitterlich: I think we should make a suggestion to them about the
snow removal and .....
Mr. Levenson: I can tell you what we have already done, last Friday I had
a meeting with the new, this is the fourth new, manager that they have
there. We had a pot hole problem. I called him and told him and I
threatened him and I told him that he better be here as quickly as
,,,possible. He introduces himself to me and says, "you know I'm a P.E.".
So I said "Well, I'm an accountant with an MBA in accounting, neither you
nor I are practicing our professions so let's put it aside". I said to
him, "The only thing I am going to tell you, you are going to fix all of
the parking lots and you are going to re -do all the entrance ways,
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Wappinger Zoning Board
Minutes - March 22, 1994
Page 7
resurface. Take up all the old blacktop and resurface those entrance
ways". I don't think the guy is too swift but if I kept plugging this
stuff with this hot patch and doing it for three or four years, I'm
throwing away money.
Mr. Lehigh: It's not only that, there is that one side over by Waldbaums
where the road has just disintegrated It's not a pot hole it is a sheet
40 feet long by 40 feet wide that is gone. There is nothing there.
Mr. Levenson: The other thing that you should know, in the stand alone
building where the Poughkeepsie Savings Bank is and Subway, the Chinese
place and the pet store, you get five minutes of rain and you have a
swimming pool there. I tried to tell him that the drainage is wrong. He
says, "Well, I can't see it", I said "Well, come when it rains and you can
see it". They are requesting bids to re -do some resurfacing.
Mr. Bitterlich: I make a motion that we close the public hearing.
Mr. Lehigh: Second.
Vote: All ayes.
Mr. Bitterlich: I make a motion that we approve Wappinger Associates for
the variance that they requested for 51 parking spaces. I will further
say, just for the record, I don't think that it should be before this
board. It was approved once before, nothing has happened to change it and
I don't know what this board is hearing it for.
Mr. Hirkala: I think that it is to legitimize it. There are no clear
records. I also think that part of the resolution should be a statement
on the non -conforming status of the parking lot sizes.
Mr. Bitterlich: I agree with you but what are we going to do?
Mr. Hirkala: You could make the statement that in the opinion of the
board, as part of the resolution, is that the size of the parking spaces
is legalized by non-conformance, prior to the 1980 Zoning Ordinance. That
would make it legitimate.
Mr. Bitterlich: I'll say that.
Mr. Levenson: We'll just type another line that the 9' parking spaces are
non -conforming and by this act ...
DISCUSSION
Mr. Lehigh: They got messed up by the original Planning Board. I don't
think that we should ....
Mr. Hirkala: I'll second. The original plan on this thing was not for
that Wappinger Plaza as it is now. That plaza that you see now is suppose
to be the parking lot.
Mr. Levenson: Where the building is?
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Mr. Hirkala: You remember that, don't you?
Mr. Prager: Yes.
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Wappinger Zoning Board
Minutes - March 22, 1994
Page 8
Mr. Hirkala: Do you know where the buildings are in that .... that whole
section, that whole acreage was suppose to be only parking lot. The
buildings were going to be in the village. That's how big the plaza was.
The original plan, Primrose Farms, they were going to develop it. They
were putting money up to do the long lines on Myers Corners Road. The
County was going to straighten out the hook in the road. The whole
section was suppose to be rebuilt, on the original plans. The original
plans included all of the Marshall property, all the way around.
DISCUSSION
Mr. Hirkala: As a matter of fact, I think the fitting for the water line
was $60,000. They were putting up $60,000 to put in a new water line.
Mr. Lehigh: A motion was made and seconded.
Roll call: Mr. Lehigh: Aye.
Mr. Bitterlich: Aye.
Mr. Lehigh: Motion to adjourn.
Mr. Hirkala: Second.
Vote: All ayes;.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 7:40 P.M.
WIC NW
Mr. Hirkala: Aye.
Mr. Prager: Aye.
Respectfully submitted,
Dawn Idema, Secretary
Town of Wappinger Zoning Board of Appeals
on
Naw
GRAY, RAILING & HEINSMAN
ENGINEERING & SURVEYING, P.C.
l3,') Route 9 • Wappingers Falls, N.Y 12590-4453 • 914 297-9435 • FAX 297-0212
LMM
February 24, 1994
REUE WED
Mr. H. Levenson, Zoning Administrator
Town of Wappinger
20 Middlebush Road MAP r
Wappinger Falls, NY 12590
Re: Wappinger Plaza ZONING ADMINISTRATOR
Route 9 / Myers Corner Road
Dear Mr. Levenson:
In an effort to clarify the parking situation at Wappinger
Plaza, I have reviewed the various- site plans and zoning
ordinances, as they relate to parking.
First, the current parking requirement for the plaza is 736
spaces. The site plan prepared for Old Country Buffet indicates
803 spaces required, a typographical error. The maps amended to
show required parking as 736 spaces are enclosed.
The applicable zoning ordinances and their appropriate parking
requirements are summarized as follows:
Effective Dates Parking Requirements Parking Spc. Size
1963 - 1980 Restaurant: 1sp/50 sf Patron area None
Retail 1sp/100 sf Retail Area specified
Storage 1sp/2 Employees
1980 - 1991 Restaurant: isp/100 sf Gross Area
and Retail : 1sp/150 sf Gross Area
1991 - current Storage : lsp/1000sf Gross Area
The original site plan was approved in 1979.
Since there was no specification for the size of parking
spaces in the 1963 ordinance, the 9'x20' spaces approved by the
Planning Board were legitimate, and become non -conforming when the
1980 ordinance was adopted.
CONSULTING ENGINEERS • LAND SURVEYORS • ENVIRONMENTAL CONSULTANTS
RESIDENTIAL \ COMMERCIAL BUILDING DESIGNERS • LAND PLANNERS
10
CM
The original Site Plan (3 copies enclosed) with original date
October 16, 1978 show the following:
106,200 sf Building Area
71,600 sf Retail Area
716 sp. required @ lsp/100sf
719 sp. provided.
,No distinction is made between retail and restaurant use.
The second site plan that was found is dated July 6, 1981.
copies enclosed)
This plan shows the following:
Existing Buildings & Arax (Approved) 100,374 sf
@ lsp/150sf = 670 sp required.
Storage Area (Channel) = 5,940 sf
@ 1 sp/1000sf = 6 sp. required
Proposed 8,000sf Building
@ 1sp/150 sf = 54 sp required.
(3
I"MW
Therefore, 730 spaces were required and 716 were provided.
(Note the site plan erroneously states 736 spaces required).
Therefore a short fall at 14 spaces was apparently approved with no
variance granted as far as I can tell. Again, there is no
distinction between retail and restaurant use even though Roy
Rogers is shown on the plan.
The current plan (3 copies enclosed) shows 685 spaces
provided, with 736 spaces required, which is a shortfall of 51
spaces. The variance request is therefore 51 spaces. This parking
requirement accounts for the parking at restaurants and retail as
specified in the current ordinance.
Wappingers Plaza Parking Requirements
Applebees:
5,040
sf. }
Old Country:
10,000
+/- sf.}
Roy Rogers:
2,600
sf }
Channel:
25,000
sf }
Retail Store:
14,000
sf }
Waldbaums:
35,000
sf }
Retail
8,000
sf }
(satellite bldg.)
Channel Storage:
17,640 sf @ lsp/100sf...... 177sp.
82,700 sf @ lsp/150sf...... 552sp.
6,300 sf @ lsp/100sf........ 7sp.
Total ....... 736sp.
t
T2
\r We will make the necessary legal notices to the adjoining
owners after your review of this letter.
Thank you for your cooperation in this matter.
Very Truly Yours,
Robert J.Wng
y, P.E.
Gray, Rail & Hein a
on
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Town of Wappinger Zoning Board of Appeals
February/!r, 1994
Agenda - Workshop - 7:30 P.M.
Approval of January 25, 1994 minutes.
DISCUSSION
NWO
Town Hall
20 Middlebush Road
Wappinger Falls, N.Y.
Wappinger Associates - Discuss variance application, #1165, with regard to
premises located on Route 9 & Myers Corners Road in conjunction with the
Amended Site Plan for Old Country Buffet, Wappingers Plaza.