1994-02-15:"3
Town of Wappinger Zoning Board of Appeals Town Hall
February 15, 1994 20 Middlebush Road
Minutes - Workshop Wappinger Falls, N.Y.
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Members Present
Mr. Sasser: Chairman Mr. Hirkala: Vice Chairman
Mr. Lehigh: Member Mr. Bitterlich: Member
Mr. Prager: Member
Others Present
MAR 2 2 1994
Dawn Idema, Secretary to the Zoning Board of Appeals
PLANNING BOARD [j
'^ 0^#Qn nr APPEALS
Mr. Sasser: Called meeting to order. I would first of all like to
welcome Mr. Prager. If there is anything that we can do to help you, we
would certainly be happy to do that. We are here to help you if we can.
Mr. Prager: Great, I appreciate it.
Mr. Sasser: I would also like to, I think that perhaps we should draft a
letter to Mr. Brooker on behalf of the board, thanking him for his
service. Is there somebody here that does not want to sign it?
The Board: No.
`%1"
Mr. Sasser: O.K., then you can sign it from the board. Would you do
that?
Dawn Idema: Of course.
Mr. Sasser: Just thanking him for his services to the town. It was a
pleasure for us to work with him. The first and only item on the agenda
tonight is Wappinger Associates. I don't actually have a copy ..... I
think the legal description hasn't been written in. Wappinger Associates
appeals the decision of the Zoning Inspector, dated November 1, 1993.
They are looking for two variances. One is a variance of the size of the
parking spaces and the second is a variance of the number of parking
spaces of Article 473.2 and 474. For the record, that is parcel
X19-6157-02-653974-00. We have a map. I guess everybody knows that this
in the Walbaum's shopping plaza. We propose a restaurant is taking over a
portion of the stores which are currently vacant there right now. Could
you give us your name please?
Ms. Vaccaro: Alicia Vaccaro from Gray, Railing & Heinsman.
Mr. Sasser: One question that I have is that I really don't know for
sure, what exactly are you looking for? What is the number of spaces
required and what is the number of spaces proposed?
0
Wappinger Zoning Board
February 15, 1994
Page 2
�r Ms. Vaccaro: If you look at your site plan you will see where it says
"Parking Requirements". The total parking existing is 685 spaces and
required is 803 spaces.
Mr. Lehigh: In just what area is that?
Ms. Vaccaro: This is for the whole site plan.
Mr. Hirkala: You are looking for the parking for the whole site plan?
Ms. Vaccaro: Yes. This application is from the owners of the plaza, not
from Old Country Buffet.
Mr. Sasser: So you are 118 spaces shy of what you would need by having
this restaurant in the plaza.
Ms. Vaccaro: What is existing there now is shy of it.
Mr. Sasser: Right now, is it 118 shy?
Mr. Hirkala: Yes.
Mr. Sasser: So your client going in there does not really change what is
existing?
Ms. Vaccaro: It does change it. It changes .....
'dor►
Mr. Sasser: Because of the use. O.K. well that is the purpose of this
meeting anyway...
Ms. Vaccaro: It doesn't change 118 though. It was a non -conforming ....
Mr. Sasser: I understand ...
Mr. Hirkala: Is there any documentation? Herbs not here. Dawn, do you
recall any documentation at all on any variances granted to the property
when it was built?
Ms. Vaccaro: There were no variances.
Mr. Hirkala: Was it developed under the then existing ordinance and
legal?
Mr. Sasser: How do they end up being shy, currently?
Ms. Vaccaro: I don't know .... I do know that Bob Gray looked in the
Wappinger's Planning Board minutes from 1978 and found that it was
approved with the 9' X 20' parking spaces and with the numbers that are
there.
Mr. Hirkala: What was approved?
`11r+
Ms. Vaccaro: The site plan.
Mr. Hirkala: The site plan can't be approved against the old Zoning
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Wappinger Zoning Boar.
February 15, 1994
Page 3
'%w ordinance and be legal. You have to understand that. if it is a Planning
Board approval, the 9' wide parking spaces and the ordinance says that
parking is 10' wide. The Planning Board doesn't have that power.
Mr. Sasser: So what we want answered is ....
Mr. Hirkala: It's not non -conforming then. It's an illegal site plan
which has to be corrected.
Ms. Vaccaro: Right.
Mr. Sasser: How many spots are required .... how many are they shy right
now with the current use? How many will they be shy with the proposed
use? Were there any variances granted with the initial use?
Mr. Lehigh: You don't, at least, plan on adding any more spaces?
Ms. Vaccaro: I believe that ... you mean adding more spaces to the
parking lot?
Mr. Lehigh: Are they going to add anymore spaces?
Ms. Vaccaro: No. There is no room.
Mr. Sasser: Are you looking for a variance of what is currently existing?
Ms. Vaccaro: Right. Another point is that .... there were several
additions to the site plan ... Applebee's and Roy Roger's. At those times
no variances were ever needed.
Mr. Hirkala: Applebee's .... I was around when all of that stuff came
about. I was around when this site plan was approved.
Mr. Sasser: Did it come before the Zoning Board?
Mr. Hirkala: No, I don't think it came before .... I wasn't on the Zoning
Board but I was around, I was active.
Mr. Sasser: Well, Applebee's was only the last couple of years.
Mr. Hirkala: That site plan was originally created ..... Applebee's
became a computer building. That building was originally designed, that
space was set aside for a restaurant. There was suppose to be two free
standing restaurants on that site. One was where Applebee's is now. They
couldn't find anybody to full -fill the site plan requirement of it being a
restaurant so they gave approvals for the computer store. The second
store was suppose to be behind the Mobile gas station. Some how or
another, Roy Roger's ended up in front of the plaza rather than back where
it belonged.
Mr. Sasser: That is fine but two or three years ago when Applebee's went
— in it still .... it looks like an illegal site plan.
Mr. Hirkala: Apparently it went through when Applebee's went in. It was
approved based on the site plan as it stood. Where the documentation is
vw .... I haven't the slightest idea
wish I had kept it.
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Wappinger Zoning Board
February 15, 1994
Page 4
I had thrown out a lot of my stuff. I
Mr. Bitterlich: Is it possible that it was conforming at the time?
Mr. Hirkala: I doubt it because as far as I know parking spaces were
always 10' wide. It was always 10' X 201. There were many arguments
about that. As far as how many parking spaces, that might have been
revised in the Zoning Ordinance Revisions. The amount of parking spaces
might be non -conforming.
Mr. Bitterlich: I wonder if it is possible that the Planning Board simply
over -looked it.
Dawn Idema: Bill Parsons had said that they were always 10' and he
couldn't understand how that went through. Bob Gray had gone through all
of the records though and found out that they did approve it at the 9' and
everyone was baffled.
Mr. Sasser: So what you are saying is right. It just went through and it
went through unanswered.
Mr. Lehigh: I have a question. Do you know when there is going to be an
entrance in the back of that restaurant?
Ms. Vaccaro: For customers?
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Mr. Lehigh: Yes.
Ms. Vaccaro:
Not for customers. Just for staff.
Mr. Sasser:
The entrance is currently there. There are doors currently
there.
Mr. Lehigh:
This is all being changed right now. It
is all being
renovated.
Mr. Sasser:
Well yea, they are not changing the doors
and stuff on the
outside of the building. Just partitions.
Mr. Lehigh:
There is an addition going on here also.
Ms. Vaccaro:
They are putting on an addition.
Mr. Sasser:
Oh they are?
Mr. Hirkala:
They are putting on an addition?
Mr. Lehigh:
Plus the fact, they are coming right out
to the edge of the
sidewalk here too.
*,,,,,Mr. Hirkala: And the Planning Board approved that?
Mr. Lehigh: This is my question. The reason I had that question is, you
have a number of parking spaces in the back that are going to be
laurAloe 1000,
Wappinger Zoning Board
February 15, 1994
Page 5
..- continually useless to customers. That is what we are looking for is the
parking spaces, not necessarily for employees, you are looking for the
customers_
Mr. Sasser: But the bottom line is, if they park in the back it opens up
parking spaces in the front.
Mr. Lehigh: That is true too.
Ms. Vaccaro: Wappinger Plaza Associates did agree in the Planning Board
resolution that all employees from the plaza are to park in the back.
Mr. Hirkala: What about deliveries?
Mr. Bitterlich: They make some deliveries in the front and some in the
back.
Mr. Hirkala: You can walk in there and if there is a truck parked in
front of Waldbaum's, you have to go back and forth
Mr. Sasser: That is a good issue but that is not really our issue.
Mr. Hirkala: Well it has to do with the parking.
Mr. Lehigh: What I am saying to you gentlemen is that, this area down
here (referring to site plan) is under-utilized. If this was utilized for
customers and this was utilized for employees, I can understand with an
egress here (referring to site plan) then I could understand .....
Mr. Sasser: Except for the fact that this place is full with dumpsters
and garbage and all of that kind of stuff.
Mr. Hirkala: There is a lot of room in the back.
Mr. Sasser: Well true but do you want to walk by a dumpster on your way
to dinner?
Mr. Lehigh: The egress is right here and if they clean up this and put
your dumpsters over here, it's not going to bother you that much. Do you
understand what I am getting at? Plus, it would give you .... I think
they could even add another row of parking in there. It could be screened
off and taken care of so you'd have additional parking back here.
Mr. Bitterlich: Not, and allow the tractor trailer trucks back there.
Mr. Lehigh: You haven't seen how wide that is back there.
Mr. Bitterlich: Yes I have. I don't think that they can get two rows of
parking plus allow for tractor trailers ....
Mr. Sasser: We are not here to try this thing. I frequent every store in
there and there has never been a time that I haven't been able to find a
reasonable parking space. I don't have any problem with it. I don't
think I need anymore information.
Wappinger Zoning Board
February 15; 1994
Page b
,.. Mr. Hirkala: My personal feeling is that the whole situation in that
plaza is horrendous. It's terrible. I don't know if the variance would
correct it. I think that the biggest problem in that plaza right now is
maintainance The biggest problem in that plaza is policing what the site
plan is.
Mr. Sasser: They had a lot of problems in there. They had the sewer
problems.....
Mr. Hirkala: I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about this
particular variance. The parking. I, as a matter of form, always park to
the rear and walk over to the stores. I'm one of the few. When requests
are made to police the area, the people complain.
Mr. Sasser: You find that in Imperial as well. You find that in every
shopping plaza. I use to sit near the Grand Union in Imperial and watch
as the Village Police were up there. They would wait for someone to pull
up there and write them a ticket.
Mr. Prager: I just happen to have come through there and they are
ticketing someone right now.
Mr. Lehigh: The ticketing has nothing to do with those people. That is a
law and the town police have to enforce that law. You've got the town
patrol and the D.C. Sheriffs.
*4" Mr. Sasser: Is there anything else you are going to need before the
public hearing?
Mr. Prager: What is the other variance?
Mr. Sasser: The size of the stalls and the number of spaces.
Mr. Hirkala: I would like to know if the number of spaces was
non -conforming according to the previous Zoning Ordinance.
Mr. Sasser: We have already asked for that.
Mr. Lehigh: If they are going to change the size of the spaces ...
Mr. Sasser: They are not going to change the size.....
Mr. Hirkala: They are asking for a variance......
Mr. Lehigh: That is what I am saying. How many more spaces is that going
to give them if they build the 9' instead of 101.
Ms. Vaccaro: They are at 91.
Mr. Sasser: They are not asking to change it.
Mr. Lehigh: I thought they were 101.
Mr. Sasser: Can I have a motion for Lead Agency?
Wappinger Zoning Board
February 15, 1994
Page 7
Mr. Bitterlich: I'll make the motion.
Mr. Lehigh: Second.
Vote: All ayes.
Mr. Sasser: Can I have a motion for a SEQRA determination?
Mr. Bitterlich: I'll make a motion to for a Negative Dec.
Mr. Prager: Second.
Vote: All ayes.
Mr. Sasser: A question that I have .... our normal public hearing is next
week and you are not going to be able to make that. Is this holding up
what you folks are doing? We can set this for the first meeting in March,
which is not a regular public hearing, or we could make it for the regular
public hearing which is the third week in March. Is there a problem with
the third week in March?
Ms. Vaccaro: No problem.
Mr. Sasser: Let's set it for the regular public hearing.
Mr. Hirkala: You pretty much have your permits all set up anyways, right?
Ms. Vaccaro: Right.
Mr. Hirkala: No matter what we do ..... if we say no, big deal, it's
there.
Mr. Sasser: Any other questions?
Mr. Bitterlich: I'll make a motion to adjourn.
Mr. Lehigh: Second.
Vote: All ayes.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 7:43 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
Dawn Idema, Secretary
Town of Wappinger Zoning Board of Appeals