1995-09-12M
Town of Wappinger Zoning Board of Appeals
September 12, 1995
Agenda - 7:30 P.M.
Approval of August 29, 1995 minutes.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
Town Hall
20 Middlebush Road
Wappinger Falls, N.Y.
1. Appeal #1209 - At the request of Ralph & Doreen Acruafredda who are
seeking a variance of Article IV, Section 445.12 of the Town of
Wappinger Zoning Law whereas you are required to maintain 20,000 sq.
ft. lot size for an accessory apartment and you are showing 19,819 sq.
ft.. thus requiring a 181 sq. ft. variance for minimum lot size on
property located at 117 Edgehill Drive and is identified as Tax Grid
419-6358-03-099097-00 in the Town of Wappinger.
2. Appeal 41208 - At the request of Joseph Knob Jerry Nika & Joan Husni
who are seeking (2) variances of Article IV, Section 421.6 of the Town
of Wappinger Zoning Law to allow the issuance of variances on two lots
which do not have legal frontage on a town road.
The property is located at 95 Osborn Hill Road and Osborn Hill
Road -Rear and is identified as Tax Grid #19-6156-02-624800-00 and
6156-02-616787-00 in the Town of Wappinger.
PTSCUSSION
eland Petroleum Co. - To discuss Appeal #1210 requesting a variance to
operate a Sunoco Gas Station within 2500 feet of another filling station
located on Route 9 and Old Hopewell Road in the Town of Wappinger.
Town of Wappinger Zoning Board of Appeals
Seutember 12, 1995
Minutes
Members Present
Mr. Sasser:
Mr. Prager:
Mr. diPierno:
Others Present
9
Town Hall
20 Middlebush Road
Wappinger Falls; N.Y.
Chairman Mr. Lehigh: Member
Member Mr. Fanuele: Member
MemberJ �v Pg �,��I�®
Mrs. Constance O. Smith; Supervisor
ROLL CALL
0 11995.
Mr. Sasser: The first item of business tonight is a public hearing for
Appeal =1209. At the request of Ralph & Doreen Acauafredda who are seeking
a variance of Article IV, Section 445.12 of the Town of Wappinger Zoning
Law whereas you are required to maintain 20;000 sq. ft. lot size for an
accessory apartment and you are showing 19;819 sq. ft., thus requiring a
181 sa. ft. variance for minimum lot size on property located at 117
Edgehill Drive and is identified as Tax Grid X19-6358-03-099097 in the
Town of Wappinger. Our regular secretary is away tonight because of an
emergency. I did speak with her today and she did acknowledge to me that
everything was in order for this hearing tonight for both the public
hearinas. Based on that conversation, I am going to assume and we can
Lfv later that all of the certified letters were sent out to the
_acent property owners. Is Mr. & Mrs. Aquafredda here? You are
representing the Acruafredda's.
Mr. Schmitt: This is Mr. Aauafredda and my name is Steven Schmitt.
Mr. Sasser: And who are you with?
Mr. Schmitt: Timberline Custom Homes.
Mr. Sasser: You would be the one that will be preforming the work.
Mr. Schmitt: Correct.
Mr. Sasser: Can I have a motion to open the public hearing?
Mr. Prager: Yes; I would like to make a motion to open the public
fearing.
Mr . Lehiaf : Second.
1.7ote : A_L i ave -S.
Mr. Sasser: Just for the record, I would like to
- Auuafredda: Excuse me, I have one more green card back.
. Sasser: You can leave that with Mrs. Smith. For the record, we Have
on file a letter from New York State Health Department. I will. see that
the secretary has a copy of that letter. The Health Department
WaDuinaer Zon7na
Minutes - September :ice. 1995
Paae 1
knowledae:= that the second system would handle an accessory apartment.
we also have a letter from the Engineers; Pagai & Martin and the rest of
the Planning Board suggesting two things should be checked. I see that
they were checked. We also have a letter from the Planning Board
recommendina this variance be aooroved. Can you tell us iDlease what it is
you are looking to do? +
Mr. Schmitt! Basically; under the Town Ordinance for putting in an
acces:�;c;ry apartment; for the Aquafredda's mother-in-law; Ralph's
mother-in-law. It would be in the basement. She is already living in the
home so it is not adding any additional burden. It would make their lives
a little bit easier. It would be Just one person living downstairs. The
realo— we are asking for the variance is because one of the stipulations
�_s that the lot has to be a minimum size of 20,000 sq. ft. We have 19;19
so thev are less than one percent under the minimum lot size. That is the
variance we are looking for tonight.
Mr. Sasser: Gentlemen; any questions? Is there anyone here from the
public who would like to speak with regards to this matter?
Mr. Cave: Mel Cave; 119 Edgehill Drive. If the Aauafredda's moved out
and sold their home, would there be anyway that they could convert it into
a townhome?
Mr. Sasser: It is for their use only. When they move or the person
ina there leaves; then it has to be dismantled. It can not stay. Is
ere anyone else that would like to speak? Does the Board have anv
further questions? Can we have a motion?
Mr. Lehigh: I make a motion that we close the public hearing.
Mr. dirie nc: Second.
Vote: All avec.
Mr. Praaer: I will make a motion to grant the variance.
Mr. diPi.erno: Second.
ROLL CALL
Vote: All avec.
Mr. Sasser: I would like to add to our vote that one of the reasons that
I voted ves is because it is less than a one percent variance. It is not
aoina to be detrimental to any of the nearby properties as based on
evidence from the Health Department and recommendations from the Planning
Board. It is certainly not a self-created difficulty and it's a very
un:;ubstantial variance. This will be filed with the Town Clerk within 5
days .
M
Wappinaer Zoning Board
Minutes - September 12, 995
Page 2
�SW Lehigh: This is lust a variance. You still have to get permission
.<:r. Schmitt: We have to go back to the Planning Board. Do we get any
paperwork:
Mr. Sasser: By State Law it has to be filed in the Town Clerks office
within 5 days. However; the Planning Board will know immediately that
your variance has been granted so, when you go before them they will he
aware of it. The next item on the agenda tonight is Appeal #1208. It is
a public nearing for Joseph Knob Jerry Nika & Joan Husni. Thev are
seeping two variances of Article IV, Section 421.6 of the Town of
Wappinger Zoning Law to allow the issuance of variances on two lots; which
do not have legal frontage on a Town road. For the record; I would also
like to say that the entire Board made a site inspection of this property
so. we have seen it and we know what it looks like. Can I have a motion
to open the public hearing?
Mr. Lehigh: 5o moved.
Mr. diPierno: Second.
Vote: All ayes_
Mr. Sasser: Mr. Knob; we had requested a letter from the Fire Prevention
r-reau and we are concerned about not getting that on time. I don't have
rthing yet. Gentlemen; did you receive anything? Did you receive
anything`:'
Mr. Knob: No.
Mr. Sasser: We felt that we were probably pushing them because their
meeting tonight. We knew that it may not come in time. I have not
received it yet. Based on that I am not ready at this time; myself; to
errant the variance. Gentlemen, how do you feel about that?
The Board agreed.
Mr. Fanuele: I believe this is a public hearing and we should listen to
the public.
Mr. Sasser: We will. We do have some people here and I will do that. At
this point and time, I am going to leave that decision to you. If you
want to proceed tonight we will, or you can adjourn the public hearing to
get the rest of the information.
Mr. Knob:
I wasn't
originally
the requester of that.
Mr. Sasser:
No, we
were. We
requested it. When we spoke to you last
there was
a concern
..
Knob: Would it make your decision making process easier if you had
at
Mr. Sasser: It would absolutely make mine easier.
Wappinaer zoning Board
Minutes - September 12; 19915
FaQe .3�
. Ynob: I don't have a problem adjournina it. I assume it would be
adjourned to the 26th.
:+fir. Sasser: O.k., but we do have some people here tonight so; we are
gonia to proceed just for a few more minutes. I would like to state for
the record that I have a written letter from Alan & Cindv Scott. (Letter
not the Tow1-, file. 1 They have identified their property as lot #606797
Osborn Hill/Walters Lane with regard to this in which they have expressed
several concerns,. which they will address. Is Mr. & Mrs. Scott here:
Blease come forward. I think it is all pretty self-explanatory to the
Board. Is there anything else that you want to add verbally before we go
any further?
?aim. Scott: Basically; I am not objecting to two houses going behind;
which I Have tried to convey to the Knob's. I actually spoke to them
maybe two years ago when I suggested that they go for a variance for the
lot behind us. I'm not trying to be a bad fellow. The only thing we
really were afraid of was No.5, access for the lots behind. We were
afraid that if you had a variance granted for this it would be combined
with say the house next door has 30 ft. Could the other lots behind there
be added on and all of a sudden you have a major ...
Mr. Sasser: That is a swamp back there.
Mr. Scott: No; there is Hayden & Nagwak that adjoin the larger lot.
sle. Sasser: We will check all of the notifications.
Mr. Lehigh: I wonder if they were notified.
Mr.
Sasser:
We will check all
of the notifications.
Mr.
Scott:
Their grid numbers
we have here.
Mr.
Lehigh:
... Actually stops
with the two lots in question.
Mr. Sasser: Yes; I was certainly under the impression that it was the
Green Fly Swamp directly behind there.
Mr. Scott: No.
Mr. Sasser: I can tell you by looking at that now that they don't have
access to it. The two deeds that the applicant provided us; they gave us
this deed and this deed, both deeds show they have the right to use
Walters Lane. This property doesn't touch Walters Lane and there's no
easement across their property to get to it. So, no they could never use
that.
Mrs. Scott: Our concern is that if
they picked up this property and
added
to this easement or right-of-way; would they be able
to have access
over
Mr. Sasser: Thev wouldn't be able
to do that without
going through
the
Flanking Board and a whole hearing
process. At this
point and time;
no
thev would not be able to do that.
But in the future
I can't say if
they
bouaht other lots surrounding that
property and made
it one huge lot; I
Wappinger Zoning Board
Minutes - September 12; 1995
Pane 4
�60nit see that happening; but if it did they don't have it as a right; the
ability put a roadway through there.
Mrs. Scott: Our other concern is that one of the deeds that is in that
copy, states that it's 17 feet and on the application it says 22 feet.
So, we just want to clarify that.
Mr. Sasser: We do have a lot of paperwork that I haven't been through
yet; which I think clarifies some of it. one thing, Mr. Knob, that I
wanted to ask you and it is something that has come across my mind, as you
know the right-of-way is very close to these peoples house. We were
concerned about emeraencv access. That was one of the reasons that we had
requested an opinion from the Fire Prevention Board. Have you considered
the parcel that is directly across from their street? The one that does
have the road frontage on Osborn Hill Road, of granting an easement in
favor of the lot that has no frontage, which would enable traffic to use
the easement aside from Walters Lane? If you put the driveway in such to
the north side of Maybe I could show you on the map.
Mr. Knob: I think I know what you mean.
Mr. Sasser: (Showing him the map.) If you were to grant an easement in
favor of this parcel to be able to use 10 feet down the strip of that, we
can't tell anybody that they can't use Walters Lane, the deeds give the
riaht for them to use it. However, if you just put your driveway in on an
ement on that property, people are going to naturally use that driveway
'Trid not Walters Lane, which is going to pull traffic away from your
neighbors house. Is that something that you would consider doing?
Mr. Knob: As a matter of fact, ... Walters Lane isn't that wide. It is
only 15 feet wide.
Mr. Sasser: Well, 17. Do you folks understand what we are referring to?
It would really move traffic over. We can't tell people they can't use.
Walters Lane. It's a legal easement. They have a right to use it. If he
puts a driveway in 10 feet over on the lot, people are going to use the
improved driveway and not Walters Lane, which is really just a paper road.
Mr. Knob: Alan &
I had
this discussion last
Thursday. He gave me a call
and I said I don't
have
a problem with it as
long as it enhances
everybodies positions.
The only thing I could
say is, I couldn't do it by
Tuesday night. It
would
probably be easiest
to do by going to a lawyer
and get the deeds
drawn
up in such a way to
provide that as part of the
Mr. Sasser: Yes, that is what you would have to do.
Mr. Knob: I don't have a problem with that idea.
Mr. Sasser: Is there anyone here that would like to speak with regard to
this matter
Scott: I would like to sav one other word in respect to the
variance. Would the variance be approved or drawn up before the I
mean the easement drawn up before the variance is approved?
n
n
Wappinger Zoning Board
Minutes - September 121. 1995
Paae 5 -
Sasser:
Sasser: He would not be issued a building permit without having that
done. No house would be allowed to be built there. That would be our
provision should we go that way. At this point and time, we have made no
decision. I don't want to make it sound like we have, but should it go
that way, he would have to do what he has to do first before he could get
a building permit. Yes, could you give us your name please?
Mrs. Reimer: Carol Reimer. I am coming into this totally unprepared. We
just go the certified letter. I live on Osborn Hill right across from
Ketchamtown Road. I live next door to the place that they own. I guess
this is going to be built back into the woods behind us?
Mr. Sasser: If you would come forward I will show you on the map so, you
will understand exactly where.
DISCUSSION OF THE MAP
Mrs. Reimer: My concerns are the water table and how that was going to
affect the water table back there because we are all one well.
Mr. Sasser: They have a legal size building lot. The lot is big enough
to out a house on. The problem is and what the hearing is not about
That is not something that we can really consider. What we have to
consider in this matter is what they need a variance for. They have a
richt to put a house there for every reason except for the fact that they
`n't have legal frontage on a Town road. Those are really the only
sues that we can address at this point and time. I presume that would
be addressed by the Health You could check with the Building
Department, but I presume that the Health Department would address that
issue.
Mrs. Scott: Are both lots of equal size?
Mr. Sasser: No, they are not. I do not know what the exact size of those
lots are. The bigger lot is 1.3 acres and the smaller lot is smaller than
that. but I don't know how much ..
Mr- Knob: .67.
Mrs. Scott: The smaller lot is the one that is directly behind us and
like she was saying, the water table is very high on both lots. If they
develop that lot, what is to say that it is not going to make the water
travel
Mr. Sasser: You might have a very valid point there, but again our
concern is, the only thing that we are able to hear at this point is the
variance with regard to the road frontage. They have come before the
Zonina Board. There is other people though that they will have to deal
with, the Building Department. The Zoning Board tonight is only hearing
what they are appealing and that is the road frontage. There could be
s -teens of other issues that might come up, but that is not really a matter
this Board to consider, lust the road frontage. Is there anyone else?
Mr. Bohlinger: My name is Henry Bohlinger. I own that other lot there,
504811. How close is this driveway going to come to my house?
Wappinaer Zonina Board
Minutes - September 12. ;995
Page 6
Mr. Sasser: You have a house located riaht there?
V-. Bohlinger: Yes, I have a house located there.
Mr. Sasser: From my map, it doesn't show the location of your house so I
can't answer how close it would be.
Mr. Bohlinger: Do you have any drawings or ..?
Mr. Sasser: It will go before the Building Department, yes. The Building
Inspector would have drawings before they would issue a building per►n t
,and they would have to meet all of the other provisions of the Law with
regards to setbacks and all the things that they have to meet in order to
he able to build there.
Mr. Bohlinger: Are you going to move the driveway over 10 feet from
Walters Lane:'
Mr. Sasser: Correct.
Mr. Bohlinger: That is getting pretty close to my house.
Mr. Prager, How far are you from your property line, your house?
. Bohlinger: 10 feet.
Mr. Sasser: Do you use Walters Lane to get to your house?
Mr. Bohlinger: No, my house is located at 91 Osborn Hill Road.
Mr. Sasser: Your the small parcel? O.K., I am sorry I misread the map.
Mr. Prager: 3500 approximately.
Mr. Bohlinger: That is correct.
Mr. Sasser: How far are you from Walters Lane right-of-way?
Mr. Bohlinaer: 17 feet.
Mr. Scott: At the easterly side of the back of his property is
approximately 63 feet from my property line, but that is a rough guess.
Up front it is narrower.
Mr. Prager: If I remember correctly, isn't there a wall along the edge of
your property?
Mr. Bohlinger: No, not on mine.
rTSCUSSION
Mr. Sasser: I have to say at this point and time what my general feeling
is. I don't want to see these people denied the use of their property.
Thev have property and they should be able to use it. Yet. I would like
V
Wappinaer Zonina Board
Minutes - September 12, 1995
Paae 7
�w see the affect on the neighbors -mitigated as much as possible. At this
time, it would he beneficial for us to know how far Walters Lane is from
this mans house. 604511.
Mr. Knob: He doesn't live there, the house is rented.
Mr. Bohlinaer: My daughter lives there.
Mr. Sasser: Rented or not, it is a legitimate concern.
Mr. Knob: The 17 and 22 foot numbers that we are talking about, I believe
... I have talked to the engineers about this before because they are the
ones that drew the 22 feet, thats to the center line of Osborn Hill Road.
the 17 feet. If you look at the way the property is shaped and if you
carry it out to the center of Osborn Hill Road, that is the 17 foot
piece. If you take it to the roads edge, I believe you would have 22
feet. We have it marked from the property line next door to Walters Lane
and it's 22 feet at the road.
Mr. Sasser: Yes, we understand that.
Mr. Knob: I am just saying we are looking at a 22 foot width from the
property line of 511.
Mr. Sasser: What I am going to want to see at the public hearing is your
ng to Have to get a surveyor or someone from the Building Department to
Itasure the distance from this gentlemans house to Walters Lane at the
closest point because the house looks like it is on a little bit of a
anale. The property is pie shaped. I think that would be very
important. If we are going to mitigate this where you are going to be
able to move the driveway over some and this gentleman ..
Mr. Knob: I am willing to do what is necessary, but I can't move it and
not move it. I either move it 10 feet and it will he a little closer or I
don't move it and ..
Mr. Sasser: I understand that.
Mr. Knob: I will do whatever you tell me to do.
Mr. Sasser: We could be talking one foot, two feet, three feet or not at
all. We are not sure at this point, but before I can say anything ...
Mr. Fanuele: I believe that to penalize or recommend access to Osborn
Hill Road --
Mr.
Sasser:
We do,
but not to legal frontage.
Mr.
Fanuele:
That
is a different issue from Walters Lane.
V--,
Knob: At
the time,
the lot was created within the Zoning Laws, so I
i6o-Ct believe it is
a question of whether I have a right to build. What I
am
trying to
do is
to make it possible for the future ..
Mr.
Sasser:
Riaht,
but I believe that you bought the property after the
I
%W-iing Law had changed_
Mr. Knob: I didn't alter the property though
to that Property..
aappinger Zoning Board
Minutes - September 12; -195
Page S
There has been no changes
Mr.
Sasser:
Even so, I don't believe you can build on that lot without
getting
a
variance. That is my interpretation of the Zoning Law.
Mr.
Knob:
I don't know, that is why I am coming here.
Mr.
Sasser:
You can't build on it without getting a variance.
Mr.
Knob:
By the way, one of the lots does have a building on it. It is
dilapidated_
Mr.
Sasser:
Right, I understand that.
Mr.
Knob:
We have been paying taxes on ...
Mr.
Sasser:
We are going to adjourn this matter until the next hearing,
September
26th. Can I have a motion?
Mr.
diPierno:
So moved.
Mz. Prager: Second.
Ste: All ayes.
Mr. Fanuele: I think you will have to specify what we want back by the
next meeting.
Mr. Sasser: By the next meeting, I'm going to want the measurement from
your neighbors house to the closest point of Walters Lane. I don't need
any other point, just the closest point. What else did we ask for?
Mr. Fanuele: We talked about putting a new access to service all three
homes.
Mr. Knob: Not all three.
Mr. Sasser: No, just the two lots in the back.
Mr. Knob: I don't think Allan wants us to do that.
Mr. Scott: What I was suggesting was leave the driveway on Walters Lane
right now and use that as a starting point. I wouldn't move the driveway
up at the road anywhere. I would just make a Y.
Mr. Sasser: That was my idea behind it as well. Use the entrance and
Bust move out across the property line. We are taking about moving up to
,a feet away. We had talked about that at the site meeting, not having a
urate driveway entrance there. We didn't want two driveways coming out
onto Osborn Hill Road. We don't want that.
Wabpinaer Zonina Board
Minutes Se_utember 12. 1995
Paae 9
%W. Scott: That is a problem. Walters Lane is 2.4 feet off of our
doorstep. You know when you step out the door if you had ..
Mr. Fanuele: You would basically have access to three properties off of
the new entrance.
Mr. Sasser: That is correct.
Mrs. Scott: .... Their new driveway would branch off the old Walters
Lane. So, when they actually get up to the house they wouldn't be driving
richt by the house.
Mr. Fanuele: The question is when you branch off, where do you put the
driveway, in the middle of that piece of property?
Mr. Sasser: I think what we're talking about is when you come off the
road right here, ..
DISCUSSION
Mr. Sasser: What we are asking for is a measurement from your neighbors
house along with a proposal to put an easement, as we had discussed using
the same entrance off of Osborn Hill Road, gradually tapering back to
bring the driveway away from your neighbors house. Also the measurement
from the closest point to the proposed easement from your neighbor on the
ier side. At that point, I believe you should come back to the next
11Klic hearing ...
Mr. Knob: I am struggling with the direction you gave me. The reason I
am struggling is because I don't know what the legal requirements are.
Now I have to go hire a lawyer.
Mr. Sasser: The legal requirements for what?
Mr. Knob: To change my deed to put the easements in. So, now I have to
ao hire a lawyer. It is going to cost me money that I didn't plan on
spending until after we talked about the variance. Now, I have to go hire
a surveyor. You are putting a burden on me that I didn't walk in here
with.
?qtr. Sasser: O.K., would you prefer to adjourn it to a later date to give
you time to ..?
Mr. Knob: I don't think time is
going to make
a difference. I
don't know
if I want to start designing the property lines. I don't mind
measuring.
That is not a problem measuring
to the house.
The other thing
is I would
be inclined to make a statement
of intent, but
I don't think I
want to
make a proposal as to how it is
actually going
to look until somebody
comes in there and says here is
a house plan_
Fanuele: Can we grant a variance with the condition that all these
her items has to be in place before ..?
Mr. Sasser: That is exactly what the applicant wants us to do. To grant
it with that provision, but we have to know what those provisions are.
Wappinger Zoning Board
Minutes - September 12, 7995
=age 10
Mr. Knob: I don't have a problem with the measurements of the house.
That is easy enough to do.
Mrs. Knob: Is that something that your Town Surveyor can come out and do?
Mr. Sasser: No; he can't do that because we don't have a Town Our
Town Engineers?
Mrs. Knob: Yes.
Mr. Sasser: No, I am sure the Town Engineers would not come out and do
that_
Mr. Fanuele: Joel, what I am saying is if we could make them general and
not specific and avoid the legal language, but make them general that the
access to the back lots would come from this new road or drivewav that
would be put in and would be shared with Walters Lane right-of-way. Those
would be the basic conditions. If he wants to add things, then he would
have to have all those documents in place.
Mr. Sasser: That is true except for the fact that we are granting
approval without knowing how wide the road would be and where it would be
;cated and it might be to the detriment to the other neighbor. He wants
kW know how close the right-of-way would be from his house and I think it
is a legitimate concern.
Mr. Fanuele: What he is asking is, how close would the driveway be?
Mr. Sasser: Right, how close would the driveway be?
Mr. Fanuele: Basically, it could be right up on his property line or 22
feet away. So, somewhere within the middle would make sense as to where
to put the driveway.
Mr. Sasser: At this point and time, I personally don't want to see him
denied the use of his property and I don't think we can deny you the use
of the property. I would he willing to vote in favor of granting the
variance even at this point and time if I knew that there would be a 10
foot right-of-way easement in favor of 616787, up the stretch of that
property_
Mrs. Knob: A 10 foot easement up the strip on the northern side
Mr. Knob: Parallel to Walters Lane_
Mr. Prager: Paper easement ....
Mr. Sasser: Right; you would have a 10 foot easement paralleling Walters
n e .
Mr. Prager: Which would make it 25 feet.
Mr. Sasser: Roughly 25 feet.
Wappinger Zoning Board
Minutes - September 12; 1995
Page 11
Mr.
Mrs. Knob:
That
easement goes to
626789.
Mr.
Sasser:
That
is correct.
Mr.
Fanuele:
This
just came from
the Fire Bureau?
It was just handed to
you?
Mr.
Lehigh:
Yes.
14r.
Fanuele:
It
says the current
width of Walters
Lane is 15 feet which
is
too narrow to
allow access for
fire apparatus_
Mr.
Sasser:
What
I had suggested
to solve that is
another 10 feet to make
it
25 fee-,,--
eet_
Mr. Fanuele: They suggest that the right-of-way should meet the
requirements of the Town Specs. for roadway as to width.
;fir. Sasser: I understand that is probably what they want. Again; I don't
think we should require someone who is looking for a driveway for their
house to conform to Town road standards. We are talking about two houses
there. We had requested information from the Town from the Highway
Superintendent. Did everyone get a copy of that? Driveway requirements?
That really deals with mostly grade_
. Lehigh: The length of it and then it tells you how far to pave it.
Mr. Sasser: But, we are talking the first 25 feet of all driveways should
he paved. That is something they will have to go through with the
Building Department anyway. It is another 10 feet on top of the 15 feet.
That is a 25 foot driveway going back there. That is certainly big enough
for any fire truck to get through and any emergency equipment to get in.
It is also wide enough that they can landscape or pave far enough over so
that it is off of these peoples door steps_
Mr. Lehigh: They made a judgement based on what they submitted showing a
15 f t . widt'i
Mr. Sasser: They are virtually saying the same thing that we are saying.
Thev think that Walters Lane by itself is too narrow. They want something
bigger. We are saving the same thing.
Mr. Lehigh: I think if you are changing it, you should give them the
gpportunity to look at it.
Mr. Sasser: To what. 25 feet?
Mr. Lehiah: Yes.
Sasser: Does anyone know off the top of their head what the width of
own road is required?
Mr. Lehigh: No. I don't.
Mr. Sasser: Connie, do you know that?
Mr. Knob: If the Town is willing to take over the road and do the
maintenance and do all of the things that a Town road requires, I might
entertain that discussion. I don't think you are prepared to do that.
Mr. Lehigh: I think anytime you build a road to their standards; to their
Specs.; they are going to assume that.
Mrs. Smith: Not necessarily..
Mr. Sasser: My personal feeling is that we got the opinion of the Fire
Prevention Bureau. I certainly respect what they've said but, I think it
is excessive to ask that it be the width of a Town road. Thirtv feet or
forty feet, I personally feel that is excessive to ask that it be the
width of a Town road. I don't know anybody who has a thirty foot wide
r'riveway. For that matter, I don't know too many people who have a 25
%woot wide driveway. I don't personally have a need to go back and find
out if 25 feet is acceptable to them. What is the pleasure of the Board?
Mr. Lehigh: .lust according to what I read you are talking two different
things. They're suggesting a roadway and you are talking about a
driveway.
Mr. Sasser: It is a driveway.
Mr. Lehigh: Just to clarify that.
Mr. Sasser: I myself don't need anything else from the Fire Prevention
Bureau. How about anybody else?
The Board agreed with Mr. Sasser.
Mr. Sasser: If you could come back to us at the next meeting, first of
all I would like to know if you would be willing to grant a 10 foot
easement?
Mr. Knob: Yes.
Mr. Sasser: Secondly, I would like to know if you had a 10 foot easement
I would like to know how far it is to your neighbors house on the other
side.
. Knob: You know it is going to be at lease 22 feet if nothing else
because we have already said that the house is 10 feet from his property
line.
Mr. Sasser: Well, it's a pie shaped lot. I can't see the location of his
Wappinger Zoning
Board
Minutes - September 12,
1995
Page
12
Mrs. Smith:
I thought it was 50
from the center. I don't know. Do
you
want me to
get the Specs.?
Mr. Knob:
Are we talking about a
Town road or a driveway here?
Mr. Lehigh:
What Fire Prevention
Bureau's recommendation was is that
thev
wanted you
to build a Town road.
Mr. Knob: If the Town is willing to take over the road and do the
maintenance and do all of the things that a Town road requires, I might
entertain that discussion. I don't think you are prepared to do that.
Mr. Lehigh: I think anytime you build a road to their standards; to their
Specs.; they are going to assume that.
Mrs. Smith: Not necessarily..
Mr. Sasser: My personal feeling is that we got the opinion of the Fire
Prevention Bureau. I certainly respect what they've said but, I think it
is excessive to ask that it be the width of a Town road. Thirtv feet or
forty feet, I personally feel that is excessive to ask that it be the
width of a Town road. I don't know anybody who has a thirty foot wide
r'riveway. For that matter, I don't know too many people who have a 25
%woot wide driveway. I don't personally have a need to go back and find
out if 25 feet is acceptable to them. What is the pleasure of the Board?
Mr. Lehigh: .lust according to what I read you are talking two different
things. They're suggesting a roadway and you are talking about a
driveway.
Mr. Sasser: It is a driveway.
Mr. Lehigh: Just to clarify that.
Mr. Sasser: I myself don't need anything else from the Fire Prevention
Bureau. How about anybody else?
The Board agreed with Mr. Sasser.
Mr. Sasser: If you could come back to us at the next meeting, first of
all I would like to know if you would be willing to grant a 10 foot
easement?
Mr. Knob: Yes.
Mr. Sasser: Secondly, I would like to know if you had a 10 foot easement
I would like to know how far it is to your neighbors house on the other
side.
. Knob: You know it is going to be at lease 22 feet if nothing else
because we have already said that the house is 10 feet from his property
line.
Mr. Sasser: Well, it's a pie shaped lot. I can't see the location of his
Wappinger Zoning Hoard
Minutes - September 12, 1995
P a a e l
y
house. So, I don't know for sure how far Again, at this point and
time, I would be in favor to vote to grant you a variance.
Mr. Knob: I don't think you need anymore information.
Mr. Sasser: I am certainly leaning in favor of granting the variance, but
I want to grant it with the provisions that this is done and it will
improve that area and not affect the other two neighbors.
Mr. Knob: I have no problem with you granting the variance subject to a
10 foot easement.
Mr.
Sasser:
O.K.,
I think that we are going in the same direction.
Mr.
Knob:
So, why
don't we just do that?
Mrs.
Knob:
I don't
understand the measurements.
Mr.
Knob:
You have
it here on the survey.
Mr. Sasser: I don't have anything on the survey that shows me the
distance from his house. Not on the copy that I have. (Looking at the
map.) If these numbers are all correct, and I have no reason to think
that they are not because it is a certified survey. There would be from
�corner of your house to the proposed easement, if they granted a 10
ot strip down the side of this, from the corner of your house to that
driveway, the closest corner would be approximately 22 feet from that
driveway. That would get wider as you go farther back and it could be a
little bit more than that.
Mr. Rohlinger: I have no objection to that.
Mr. Sasser: Very good. Gentlemen, can we go forth tonight? We have not
adjourned this officially, have we?
Mr. Fanuele! No.
Mr. Sasser: I don't believe we adjourned the public hearing. Is there
anyone else who would like to speak with regard to this?
Mr. Scott: What was actually decided?
Mr. Sasser: Nothing has been decided vet, but I presume that momentarily
there is going to be a motion made. If it was made to grant, the grant
would be with a provision that they provide a 10 foot easement opposite
the side of the road that your house is.
Mr. Scott: Is that from the center line of Walters Lane or is that from
the ..?
. Sasser: 10 feet from the edge of Walters Lane into their property
that both of those back lots would be able to use as a driveway.
Mr. Lehigh: Are you going to make the driveway 10 feet ..?
Wappinger Zoning Board
Minutes - September 12, 1995
Page 14
Mr. Sasser: The driveway would be 10 feet; but they automatically have
the right to use Walters Lane which makes it 25 feet.
Mr. Lehigh: (Too low to transcribe_)
Mr. Sasser: O.K., we can put it in the motion. It is in effect moving
the driveway approximately another 10 feet away from the front of vourJ
house.
=Mr. Scott: What does that mean? Are you going to have two driveways side
by s ide7
Mr. Sasser: I can't tell you that. All I can tell you is by law those
properties have the right to use Walters Lane.
Mr. Scott: I'm trying to visualize it.
Mr. Sasser: We would make a recommendation to the Building nepartment and
T believe what this gentleman is proposing is that when they put the
driveway in, it would be put in along their easement.
Air. Fanuele: The way that I understand it is that you would have yours on
Walters Lane; over would be another driveway.
Knob: I
don't want to talk about another driveway. I think
we would
end up with one driveway.
Mr.
Prager:
Mr. Sasser:
One driveway that is 25 feet wide. Even
though legally
it is
Walters Lane
for 15 feet and an easement for 10 feet.
When you
look at it
you will see
one driveway going up.
Mrs.
Scott:
Mr. Knob: And I don't have to put in a 25 feet wide
driveway.
All I have
to do is put
in a 10 foot easement in.
they
go over
Mr. Prager:
Right now you actually own approximately
7 1/2 feet
of
Walters Lane.
Mr.
Sasser:
You have a right to
use it.
Mr.
Prager:
What we are saying
is you are going to come over onto _your
property
10
feet more so, really
you will now have 17 1/2 feet, correct?
Mr.
Knob:
Right.
Mrs.
Scott:
But, at what point will they branch off? Are we going to
both
have the
same entrance onto
Osborn Hill Road? At what point will
they
go over
the 10 feet?
Mr. Sasser: That is not something that we're going to be able to
termine because they have the right to use Walters Lane. I think you
+'e going to have to get together and determine where you want to
physically put the driveway in that is mutually acceptable to them.
Mr. Knob: Nobody wants to have a driveway and a house sitting right on
the driveway. That doesn't make anv sense_
Wappinger Zoning Board
Minutes - September 12, 7995
Page 15
Mr. Sasser: They will be required, if I'm reading the Building
correctly, they will be required to pave when they build another house
back there. The first 25 feet or so of the driveway has got to be paved.
They can't pave along Walters Lane because Walters Lane is not their
property, it's just an easement. They don't have a right to pave that.
They can only pave their 10 feet.
MIXED nISCUSSIox
Mr. Fanuele: To follow up, Mr. Scott's access to his property is through
the new driveway?
Mr. Lehigh: Yes, it has got to be.
Mrs. Knob: I don't understand that. You mean we're not blacktopping
Walters Lane, just the first 25 feet of the driveway ..?
Mr. Fanuele: Of the new driveway. If I understood Joel correctly. Mr.
Scott would get access off of the new driveway. +
Mr. Knob: He doesn't want that_
tM,r. Fanuele: I think we need a drawing to show ...
Mrs. Scott: As I understand it, we're both coming onto Osborn Hill Road
on the same driveway, which is Walters Lane and then I don't know how many
feet, but then it would gradually branch off on their own property to get+
to the back to lots.
Mr. Knob: For the purposes of this, I will give a 10 foot easement along
Walters Lane. When we actually go to put the driveways in we will
probably swing it off Walters Lane so you can use it yourself and also
Mr. Sasser: Well, if you grant the 10 feet you have 25 feet to actually
put the driveway ...
Mr. Prager: I would like to see the driveway.
Mrs. Knob: You can't do that.
Mr. Sasser: Let me take it one step farther than, would you be willing
also to grant an easement to these people?
Mrs. Knob: Nom_
Mr. Knob: Say what you were saving.
Mr. Sasser: And everyone would come up with the first 25 feet of a
iveway.
Mrs. Knob: (Too low to transcribe.)
Mr. Knob: Not really.
Mrs. Scott: Right_
Mrs. Knob: If that is ...
Mrs. Scott:
our problem is that we don't want cars for two lots
driving
right up by the corner of our house.
Wappinger Zoning Board
And I agree with that.
Minutes - September
12, 1995
What we are agreeing to is a 10 foot
easement to the
back
Page 16
So, that the driveway ...
Mr. Sasser:
Mr. Sasser:
Then; you will have to
come back.
point. You
Mrs. Knob:
.... They right now have
access to their house on that
7 1/2
feet and I
have no problem with that
and they have no problem with
that,
is that correct?
Mrs. Scott: Right_
Mrs. Knob: If that is ...
Mrs. Scott:
our problem is that we don't want cars for two lots
driving
right up by the corner of our house.
Mr. Knob:
And I agree with that.
Mrs. Knob:
What we are agreeing to is a 10 foot
easement to the
back
property.
So, that the driveway ...
Mr. Sasser:
I don't mean to interrupt you, but Mr.
Prager has a
very good
point. You
have 7 1/2 feet of Walters Lane. You
will also have
a 10 foot
easement, which would allow you to pave almost 18
feet.
Mr. Prager: That is what your going to pave of the 25 feet. That would
he vour driveway_
Mrs. Knob: Let me ask you this, does all of the driveways in Wappinger
Have to be 18 1/2 or 17 1/2 feet wide'
Mr. Sasser: Thev don't.
Mrs. Knob: Then, why does this driveway have to be 17 1/2 feet wide?
Mr. Sasser: Because we are trying to mitigate _.
Mr. Prager: For two lots back there.
Mr. Knob: I would only use 10 feet of that and pave that 10 feet, it
moves the driveway even further away from Allan's property.
Mr. Prager: The Fire Prevention Bureau already has said that 15 feet
isn't wide enough and you want to make it 10 feet. Is that what vour
saving"
Mrs. Knob: This 15 feet isn't wide enough for a Town road and I agree
with that.
Mr. Prager: Not for a Town road for fire apparatus going in to those two
lots in the back, if they have to bring trucks in the back for those two
lots.
�bts. Knob: Another words, you are saying that all driveways in Wappinger
has to be paved. Is that what your saying?
Mr. Sasser: The first 25 feet has to be paved.
I A kw
4
Wappinger Zoning Foard
Minutes - September 12, 1995
Page 17
Mr. Knob: What does that have to do with fire trucks going up.
thing is 25 feet wide.
Mr. Prager: The width is what they want for the truck.
The whole
Mr. Fanuele.: If they have a fire in the back, the truck has to be able to
get into the back. That means the whole road has to be able to support a
fire truck.
Mr. Sasser:
Again, in my
opinion, as long as they grant
the 10 foot
easement,
I am willing at
this point and time to vote on
it and let them
determine
... You can't
stop anybody from using Walters
Lane.
Mr. Lehigh: (Unable to transcribe.{
Mr. Praaer: If you ever lived in that house, I hope that you feel that a
fire truck can get back in there.
Mr. Sasser: We do feel that way. First of all, by the Town Ordinance you
have to have the first 25 feet paved.
Mr. Knob: I don't have a problem with that.
Mr. Sasser: In addition to that, you have to have a driveway that meets
rtain grade requirements simply because they want to get fire apparatus
in there_
Mr.
Knob: When a building plan comes forward and the
architect
lays out
the
footprint and everything else,
I would assume that it would
have to be
part
of that plan or you can't get
a building permit.
I am not
trying to
get
a building permit vet. I am Just trying to get a
variance
that allows
me to
go forward and take the next
step and get Board
of Health
approval.
Mr. Sasser: What are you gentlemen looking for?
Mr. Prager: The extra 10 feet.
Mr. Lehigh: I think to make it legally binding the easement would have to
be changed. The 10 feet would have to be added to the 7 1/2 feet.
Mr. Sasser: He already has the 7 1/2.
Mr. Lehigh: I think that it will have to be added to it so that you
actually change the easement for him. He is going to use one easement and
the other gentleman is going to use another one
Mr. Knob: I am going to have to get a lawyer to do the right thing to
crake it all fit together. I understand that too. I don't think that we
legally have the ability to discuss this here.
. Sasser: I again, at this point and time, as I said I am willing to
vote for the 10 foot easement and let them work out the .... I am
comfortable with that.
MIXED DISCUSSION!
Wappinger Zoning Board
Minutes - September 12; 1995
Pa e 18
g
Mr. Sasser: That is between him and the Building Department. That is not
our place to determine the driveway size. We just want to make sure that
emergency vehicles can get back there. If he has 10 feet, there will be
25 feet for emergency vehicles to get back there. Any vehicle could get
back there using 25 feet. Walters Lane will always be there and his 10
feet will always be there.
Mr. Prager: O.K., right along Walters Lane.
Mr. Sasser: He will change the deed to the property to grant in favor of
787; which means it will always be there.
Mr. Fanuele: I make a motion that we grant the variance, but there would
be one access off of Osborn Hill Road combined with Walters Lane to
service the three lots in question.
Mr. Sasser: Two lots.
Mr. Fanuele: If I am using the same access for the three lots so I have
to ...
Mr. Lehiah: You still have to have him on there.
Ml. Sasser: You don't, he still has his 7 1/2 feet to use without ever
Ching his Actually, he could use all of Walters Lane to get to his
use_
M -r. Fanuele: What we are saying is that we want one access on Osborn Hill
Road. So, I would use Walters Lane for one access.
Mr. Prager: Correct.
Mr. Sasser: Correct.
Mr.
Fanuele: So, he would come in on part of Walters Land and Mr. Knob's
property to get to his house
and then the driveway would be extended to
aet
two services.
Mr.
Knob: Wouldn't it be easier to word this thing to he contingent upon
my
granting an additional 10
feet along side of Walters Lane.
Mr.
Sasser: Yes, to me that
is enough.
Mr.
Prager: That is exactly
what we want_
Mr.
Sasser: With one access
point on Osborn Hill Road. I have no problem
with
that. Is there anybody
else who would like to speak? Motion t
close the public hearing.
�—.
diPierno: So moved_
Mr.
Praaer: Second.
Vote: All aye-si.
Wappinger Zoning Board
Minutes - September 12, 1995
Page 19
Mr. Fanuele: I would like to make a motion to grant the variance that
they would have one access on Osborn Hill Road and to add 10 feet to the
right-of-way to service the one hack lot. Your lot is already serviced
from Osborn Hill Road and there is a need for service for the one back
lot.
Mr. Sasser: He would grant an easement to service both 616787 and 624800.
Mr. Fanuele: The lot 624800 would have access off of Osborn Hill Road and
would supply access to 616787, which is the back lot.
Mr. Sasser: O.K., let me just repeat that to make sure that I have it
correct that your motion is to grant the variance provided that only one
access will be maintained off of Osborn Hill Road and that parcel 624800
grant an easement of 10 feet in favor of property 616787 along the side of
Walters Lane.. correct? Do I have a second?
Mr. diPierno: Second.
ROLL CAL -I.
Vote: All aves.
I -4a. Sasser: This decision will be written up much quicker than it was
cussed and filed with the Town Clerk.
Mr. Lehigh: I don't think we have a Negative Dec. on that because of
where it was situated. I think we should declare a Negative Dec..
lir. Sasser: We don't need a public hearing for that so if you want to
make a motion for that.
Mr. Lehigh: I make a motion that we declare a Negative Dec.
Mr. Fanuele: Second.
Vote: All ayes.
Mr. Sasser: That will be filed within 5 days.
TAPE NOT WORKING - SUMMARTZED
DISCUSSION
Gasland Petroleum Co - To discuss Appeal ##1210 requesting a variance to
operate a Sunoco Gas Station within 2500 feet of another filling station
located on Route 9 and Old Hopewell Road in the Town of Wappinger.
It was agreed that they need to get an interpretation from the Zoning
A-ministrator as to Article IV, Section 400.5.2.3 which states "If such
�400n-conformina use" of land, or any portion thereof, ceases for any
reason whatsoever for a continuous period of more than two years, or is
changed to a conforming "use", any future "use" of such land shall he in
conformity with all provisions of the ordinance."
�I
Wappinger Zoning Board
Minutes - September 12, 1995
Page 2tu
An interpretation and a public hearing were set for September 26,
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 8:53 P.M..
Respectfully submitted,
C
199r,
Mrs'. Linda Ng*Srery% Secretary
Town of Wappinger Zoning Board of Appeals