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1995-09-12M Town of Wappinger Zoning Board of Appeals September 12, 1995 Agenda - 7:30 P.M. Approval of August 29, 1995 minutes. PUBLIC HEARINGS Town Hall 20 Middlebush Road Wappinger Falls, N.Y. 1. Appeal #1209 - At the request of Ralph & Doreen Acruafredda who are seeking a variance of Article IV, Section 445.12 of the Town of Wappinger Zoning Law whereas you are required to maintain 20,000 sq. ft. lot size for an accessory apartment and you are showing 19,819 sq. ft.. thus requiring a 181 sq. ft. variance for minimum lot size on property located at 117 Edgehill Drive and is identified as Tax Grid 419-6358-03-099097-00 in the Town of Wappinger. 2. Appeal 41208 - At the request of Joseph Knob Jerry Nika & Joan Husni who are seeking (2) variances of Article IV, Section 421.6 of the Town of Wappinger Zoning Law to allow the issuance of variances on two lots which do not have legal frontage on a town road. The property is located at 95 Osborn Hill Road and Osborn Hill Road -Rear and is identified as Tax Grid #19-6156-02-624800-00 and 6156-02-616787-00 in the Town of Wappinger. PTSCUSSION eland Petroleum Co. - To discuss Appeal #1210 requesting a variance to operate a Sunoco Gas Station within 2500 feet of another filling station located on Route 9 and Old Hopewell Road in the Town of Wappinger. Town of Wappinger Zoning Board of Appeals Seutember 12, 1995 Minutes Members Present Mr. Sasser: Mr. Prager: Mr. diPierno: Others Present 9 Town Hall 20 Middlebush Road Wappinger Falls; N.Y. Chairman Mr. Lehigh: Member Member Mr. Fanuele: Member MemberJ �v Pg �,��I�® Mrs. Constance O. Smith; Supervisor ROLL CALL 0 11995. Mr. Sasser: The first item of business tonight is a public hearing for Appeal =1209. At the request of Ralph & Doreen Acauafredda who are seeking a variance of Article IV, Section 445.12 of the Town of Wappinger Zoning Law whereas you are required to maintain 20;000 sq. ft. lot size for an accessory apartment and you are showing 19;819 sq. ft., thus requiring a 181 sa. ft. variance for minimum lot size on property located at 117 Edgehill Drive and is identified as Tax Grid X19-6358-03-099097 in the Town of Wappinger. Our regular secretary is away tonight because of an emergency. I did speak with her today and she did acknowledge to me that everything was in order for this hearing tonight for both the public hearinas. Based on that conversation, I am going to assume and we can Lfv later that all of the certified letters were sent out to the _acent property owners. Is Mr. & Mrs. Aquafredda here? You are representing the Acruafredda's. Mr. Schmitt: This is Mr. Aauafredda and my name is Steven Schmitt. Mr. Sasser: And who are you with? Mr. Schmitt: Timberline Custom Homes. Mr. Sasser: You would be the one that will be preforming the work. Mr. Schmitt: Correct. Mr. Sasser: Can I have a motion to open the public hearing? Mr. Prager: Yes; I would like to make a motion to open the public fearing. Mr . Lehiaf : Second. 1.7ote : A_L i ave -S. Mr. Sasser: Just for the record, I would like to - Auuafredda: Excuse me, I have one more green card back. . Sasser: You can leave that with Mrs. Smith. For the record, we Have on file a letter from New York State Health Department. I will. see that the secretary has a copy of that letter. The Health Department WaDuinaer Zon7na Minutes - September :ice. 1995 Paae 1 knowledae:= that the second system would handle an accessory apartment. we also have a letter from the Engineers; Pagai & Martin and the rest of the Planning Board suggesting two things should be checked. I see that they were checked. We also have a letter from the Planning Board recommendina this variance be aooroved. Can you tell us iDlease what it is you are looking to do? + Mr. Schmitt! Basically; under the Town Ordinance for putting in an acces:�;c;ry apartment; for the Aquafredda's mother-in-law; Ralph's mother-in-law. It would be in the basement. She is already living in the home so it is not adding any additional burden. It would make their lives a little bit easier. It would be Just one person living downstairs. The realo— we are asking for the variance is because one of the stipulations �_s that the lot has to be a minimum size of 20,000 sq. ft. We have 19;19 so thev are less than one percent under the minimum lot size. That is the variance we are looking for tonight. Mr. Sasser: Gentlemen; any questions? Is there anyone here from the public who would like to speak with regards to this matter? Mr. Cave: Mel Cave; 119 Edgehill Drive. If the Aauafredda's moved out and sold their home, would there be anyway that they could convert it into a townhome? Mr. Sasser: It is for their use only. When they move or the person ina there leaves; then it has to be dismantled. It can not stay. Is ere anyone else that would like to speak? Does the Board have anv further questions? Can we have a motion? Mr. Lehigh: I make a motion that we close the public hearing. Mr. dirie nc: Second. Vote: All avec. Mr. Praaer: I will make a motion to grant the variance. Mr. diPi.erno: Second. ROLL CALL Vote: All avec. Mr. Sasser: I would like to add to our vote that one of the reasons that I voted ves is because it is less than a one percent variance. It is not aoina to be detrimental to any of the nearby properties as based on evidence from the Health Department and recommendations from the Planning Board. It is certainly not a self-created difficulty and it's a very un:;ubstantial variance. This will be filed with the Town Clerk within 5 days . M Wappinaer Zoning Board Minutes - September 12, 995 Page 2 �SW Lehigh: This is lust a variance. You still have to get permission .<:r. Schmitt: We have to go back to the Planning Board. Do we get any paperwork: Mr. Sasser: By State Law it has to be filed in the Town Clerks office within 5 days. However; the Planning Board will know immediately that your variance has been granted so, when you go before them they will he aware of it. The next item on the agenda tonight is Appeal #1208. It is a public nearing for Joseph Knob Jerry Nika & Joan Husni. Thev are seeping two variances of Article IV, Section 421.6 of the Town of Wappinger Zoning Law to allow the issuance of variances on two lots; which do not have legal frontage on a Town road. For the record; I would also like to say that the entire Board made a site inspection of this property so. we have seen it and we know what it looks like. Can I have a motion to open the public hearing? Mr. Lehigh: 5o moved. Mr. diPierno: Second. Vote: All ayes_ Mr. Sasser: Mr. Knob; we had requested a letter from the Fire Prevention r-reau and we are concerned about not getting that on time. I don't have rthing yet. Gentlemen; did you receive anything? Did you receive anything`:' Mr. Knob: No. Mr. Sasser: We felt that we were probably pushing them because their meeting tonight. We knew that it may not come in time. I have not received it yet. Based on that I am not ready at this time; myself; to errant the variance. Gentlemen, how do you feel about that? The Board agreed. Mr. Fanuele: I believe this is a public hearing and we should listen to the public. Mr. Sasser: We will. We do have some people here and I will do that. At this point and time, I am going to leave that decision to you. If you want to proceed tonight we will, or you can adjourn the public hearing to get the rest of the information. Mr. Knob: I wasn't originally the requester of that. Mr. Sasser: No, we were. We requested it. When we spoke to you last there was a concern .. Knob: Would it make your decision making process easier if you had at Mr. Sasser: It would absolutely make mine easier. Wappinaer zoning Board Minutes - September 12; 19915 FaQe .3� . Ynob: I don't have a problem adjournina it. I assume it would be adjourned to the 26th. :+fir. Sasser: O.k., but we do have some people here tonight so; we are gonia to proceed just for a few more minutes. I would like to state for the record that I have a written letter from Alan & Cindv Scott. (Letter not the Tow1-, file. 1 They have identified their property as lot #606797 Osborn Hill/Walters Lane with regard to this in which they have expressed several concerns,. which they will address. Is Mr. & Mrs. Scott here: Blease come forward. I think it is all pretty self-explanatory to the Board. Is there anything else that you want to add verbally before we go any further? ?aim. Scott: Basically; I am not objecting to two houses going behind; which I Have tried to convey to the Knob's. I actually spoke to them maybe two years ago when I suggested that they go for a variance for the lot behind us. I'm not trying to be a bad fellow. The only thing we really were afraid of was No.5, access for the lots behind. We were afraid that if you had a variance granted for this it would be combined with say the house next door has 30 ft. Could the other lots behind there be added on and all of a sudden you have a major ... Mr. Sasser: That is a swamp back there. Mr. Scott: No; there is Hayden & Nagwak that adjoin the larger lot. sle. Sasser: We will check all of the notifications. Mr. Lehigh: I wonder if they were notified. Mr. Sasser: We will check all of the notifications. Mr. Scott: Their grid numbers we have here. Mr. Lehigh: ... Actually stops with the two lots in question. Mr. Sasser: Yes; I was certainly under the impression that it was the Green Fly Swamp directly behind there. Mr. Scott: No. Mr. Sasser: I can tell you by looking at that now that they don't have access to it. The two deeds that the applicant provided us; they gave us this deed and this deed, both deeds show they have the right to use Walters Lane. This property doesn't touch Walters Lane and there's no easement across their property to get to it. So, no they could never use that. Mrs. Scott: Our concern is that if they picked up this property and added to this easement or right-of-way; would they be able to have access over Mr. Sasser: Thev wouldn't be able to do that without going through the Flanking Board and a whole hearing process. At this point and time; no thev would not be able to do that. But in the future I can't say if they bouaht other lots surrounding that property and made it one huge lot; I Wappinger Zoning Board Minutes - September 12; 1995 Pane 4 �60nit see that happening; but if it did they don't have it as a right; the ability put a roadway through there. Mrs. Scott: Our other concern is that one of the deeds that is in that copy, states that it's 17 feet and on the application it says 22 feet. So, we just want to clarify that. Mr. Sasser: We do have a lot of paperwork that I haven't been through yet; which I think clarifies some of it. one thing, Mr. Knob, that I wanted to ask you and it is something that has come across my mind, as you know the right-of-way is very close to these peoples house. We were concerned about emeraencv access. That was one of the reasons that we had requested an opinion from the Fire Prevention Board. Have you considered the parcel that is directly across from their street? The one that does have the road frontage on Osborn Hill Road, of granting an easement in favor of the lot that has no frontage, which would enable traffic to use the easement aside from Walters Lane? If you put the driveway in such to the north side of Maybe I could show you on the map. Mr. Knob: I think I know what you mean. Mr. Sasser: (Showing him the map.) If you were to grant an easement in favor of this parcel to be able to use 10 feet down the strip of that, we can't tell anybody that they can't use Walters Lane, the deeds give the riaht for them to use it. However, if you just put your driveway in on an ement on that property, people are going to naturally use that driveway 'Trid not Walters Lane, which is going to pull traffic away from your neighbors house. Is that something that you would consider doing? Mr. Knob: As a matter of fact, ... Walters Lane isn't that wide. It is only 15 feet wide. Mr. Sasser: Well, 17. Do you folks understand what we are referring to? It would really move traffic over. We can't tell people they can't use. Walters Lane. It's a legal easement. They have a right to use it. If he puts a driveway in 10 feet over on the lot, people are going to use the improved driveway and not Walters Lane, which is really just a paper road. Mr. Knob: Alan & I had this discussion last Thursday. He gave me a call and I said I don't have a problem with it as long as it enhances everybodies positions. The only thing I could say is, I couldn't do it by Tuesday night. It would probably be easiest to do by going to a lawyer and get the deeds drawn up in such a way to provide that as part of the Mr. Sasser: Yes, that is what you would have to do. Mr. Knob: I don't have a problem with that idea. Mr. Sasser: Is there anyone here that would like to speak with regard to this matter Scott: I would like to sav one other word in respect to the variance. Would the variance be approved or drawn up before the I mean the easement drawn up before the variance is approved? n n Wappinger Zoning Board Minutes - September 121. 1995 Paae 5 - Sasser: Sasser: He would not be issued a building permit without having that done. No house would be allowed to be built there. That would be our provision should we go that way. At this point and time, we have made no decision. I don't want to make it sound like we have, but should it go that way, he would have to do what he has to do first before he could get a building permit. Yes, could you give us your name please? Mrs. Reimer: Carol Reimer. I am coming into this totally unprepared. We just go the certified letter. I live on Osborn Hill right across from Ketchamtown Road. I live next door to the place that they own. I guess this is going to be built back into the woods behind us? Mr. Sasser: If you would come forward I will show you on the map so, you will understand exactly where. DISCUSSION OF THE MAP Mrs. Reimer: My concerns are the water table and how that was going to affect the water table back there because we are all one well. Mr. Sasser: They have a legal size building lot. The lot is big enough to out a house on. The problem is and what the hearing is not about That is not something that we can really consider. What we have to consider in this matter is what they need a variance for. They have a richt to put a house there for every reason except for the fact that they `n't have legal frontage on a Town road. Those are really the only sues that we can address at this point and time. I presume that would be addressed by the Health You could check with the Building Department, but I presume that the Health Department would address that issue. Mrs. Scott: Are both lots of equal size? Mr. Sasser: No, they are not. I do not know what the exact size of those lots are. The bigger lot is 1.3 acres and the smaller lot is smaller than that. but I don't know how much .. Mr- Knob: .67. Mrs. Scott: The smaller lot is the one that is directly behind us and like she was saying, the water table is very high on both lots. If they develop that lot, what is to say that it is not going to make the water travel Mr. Sasser: You might have a very valid point there, but again our concern is, the only thing that we are able to hear at this point is the variance with regard to the road frontage. They have come before the Zonina Board. There is other people though that they will have to deal with, the Building Department. The Zoning Board tonight is only hearing what they are appealing and that is the road frontage. There could be s -teens of other issues that might come up, but that is not really a matter this Board to consider, lust the road frontage. Is there anyone else? Mr. Bohlinger: My name is Henry Bohlinger. I own that other lot there, 504811. How close is this driveway going to come to my house? Wappinaer Zonina Board Minutes - September 12. ;995 Page 6 Mr. Sasser: You have a house located riaht there? V-. Bohlinger: Yes, I have a house located there. Mr. Sasser: From my map, it doesn't show the location of your house so I can't answer how close it would be. Mr. Bohlinger: Do you have any drawings or ..? Mr. Sasser: It will go before the Building Department, yes. The Building Inspector would have drawings before they would issue a building per►n t ,and they would have to meet all of the other provisions of the Law with regards to setbacks and all the things that they have to meet in order to he able to build there. Mr. Bohlinger: Are you going to move the driveway over 10 feet from Walters Lane:' Mr. Sasser: Correct. Mr. Bohlinger: That is getting pretty close to my house. Mr. Prager, How far are you from your property line, your house? . Bohlinger: 10 feet. Mr. Sasser: Do you use Walters Lane to get to your house? Mr. Bohlinger: No, my house is located at 91 Osborn Hill Road. Mr. Sasser: Your the small parcel? O.K., I am sorry I misread the map. Mr. Prager: 3500 approximately. Mr. Bohlinger: That is correct. Mr. Sasser: How far are you from Walters Lane right-of-way? Mr. Bohlinaer: 17 feet. Mr. Scott: At the easterly side of the back of his property is approximately 63 feet from my property line, but that is a rough guess. Up front it is narrower. Mr. Prager: If I remember correctly, isn't there a wall along the edge of your property? Mr. Bohlinger: No, not on mine. rTSCUSSION Mr. Sasser: I have to say at this point and time what my general feeling is. I don't want to see these people denied the use of their property. Thev have property and they should be able to use it. Yet. I would like V Wappinaer Zonina Board Minutes - September 12, 1995 Paae 7 �w see the affect on the neighbors -mitigated as much as possible. At this time, it would he beneficial for us to know how far Walters Lane is from this mans house. 604511. Mr. Knob: He doesn't live there, the house is rented. Mr. Bohlinaer: My daughter lives there. Mr. Sasser: Rented or not, it is a legitimate concern. Mr. Knob: The 17 and 22 foot numbers that we are talking about, I believe ... I have talked to the engineers about this before because they are the ones that drew the 22 feet, thats to the center line of Osborn Hill Road. the 17 feet. If you look at the way the property is shaped and if you carry it out to the center of Osborn Hill Road, that is the 17 foot piece. If you take it to the roads edge, I believe you would have 22 feet. We have it marked from the property line next door to Walters Lane and it's 22 feet at the road. Mr. Sasser: Yes, we understand that. Mr. Knob: I am just saying we are looking at a 22 foot width from the property line of 511. Mr. Sasser: What I am going to want to see at the public hearing is your ng to Have to get a surveyor or someone from the Building Department to Itasure the distance from this gentlemans house to Walters Lane at the closest point because the house looks like it is on a little bit of a anale. The property is pie shaped. I think that would be very important. If we are going to mitigate this where you are going to be able to move the driveway over some and this gentleman .. Mr. Knob: I am willing to do what is necessary, but I can't move it and not move it. I either move it 10 feet and it will he a little closer or I don't move it and .. Mr. Sasser: I understand that. Mr. Knob: I will do whatever you tell me to do. Mr. Sasser: We could be talking one foot, two feet, three feet or not at all. We are not sure at this point, but before I can say anything ... Mr. Fanuele: I believe that to penalize or recommend access to Osborn Hill Road -- Mr. Sasser: We do, but not to legal frontage. Mr. Fanuele: That is a different issue from Walters Lane. V--, Knob: At the time, the lot was created within the Zoning Laws, so I i6o-Ct believe it is a question of whether I have a right to build. What I am trying to do is to make it possible for the future .. Mr. Sasser: Riaht, but I believe that you bought the property after the I %W-iing Law had changed_ Mr. Knob: I didn't alter the property though to that Property.. aappinger Zoning Board Minutes - September 12; -195 Page S There has been no changes Mr. Sasser: Even so, I don't believe you can build on that lot without getting a variance. That is my interpretation of the Zoning Law. Mr. Knob: I don't know, that is why I am coming here. Mr. Sasser: You can't build on it without getting a variance. Mr. Knob: By the way, one of the lots does have a building on it. It is dilapidated_ Mr. Sasser: Right, I understand that. Mr. Knob: We have been paying taxes on ... Mr. Sasser: We are going to adjourn this matter until the next hearing, September 26th. Can I have a motion? Mr. diPierno: So moved. Mz. Prager: Second. Ste: All ayes. Mr. Fanuele: I think you will have to specify what we want back by the next meeting. Mr. Sasser: By the next meeting, I'm going to want the measurement from your neighbors house to the closest point of Walters Lane. I don't need any other point, just the closest point. What else did we ask for? Mr. Fanuele: We talked about putting a new access to service all three homes. Mr. Knob: Not all three. Mr. Sasser: No, just the two lots in the back. Mr. Knob: I don't think Allan wants us to do that. Mr. Scott: What I was suggesting was leave the driveway on Walters Lane right now and use that as a starting point. I wouldn't move the driveway up at the road anywhere. I would just make a Y. Mr. Sasser: That was my idea behind it as well. Use the entrance and Bust move out across the property line. We are taking about moving up to ,a feet away. We had talked about that at the site meeting, not having a urate driveway entrance there. We didn't want two driveways coming out onto Osborn Hill Road. We don't want that. Wabpinaer Zonina Board Minutes Se_utember 12. 1995 Paae 9 %W. Scott: That is a problem. Walters Lane is 2.4 feet off of our doorstep. You know when you step out the door if you had .. Mr. Fanuele: You would basically have access to three properties off of the new entrance. Mr. Sasser: That is correct. Mrs. Scott: .... Their new driveway would branch off the old Walters Lane. So, when they actually get up to the house they wouldn't be driving richt by the house. Mr. Fanuele: The question is when you branch off, where do you put the driveway, in the middle of that piece of property? Mr. Sasser: I think what we're talking about is when you come off the road right here, .. DISCUSSION Mr. Sasser: What we are asking for is a measurement from your neighbors house along with a proposal to put an easement, as we had discussed using the same entrance off of Osborn Hill Road, gradually tapering back to bring the driveway away from your neighbors house. Also the measurement from the closest point to the proposed easement from your neighbor on the ier side. At that point, I believe you should come back to the next 11Klic hearing ... Mr. Knob: I am struggling with the direction you gave me. The reason I am struggling is because I don't know what the legal requirements are. Now I have to go hire a lawyer. Mr. Sasser: The legal requirements for what? Mr. Knob: To change my deed to put the easements in. So, now I have to ao hire a lawyer. It is going to cost me money that I didn't plan on spending until after we talked about the variance. Now, I have to go hire a surveyor. You are putting a burden on me that I didn't walk in here with. ?qtr. Sasser: O.K., would you prefer to adjourn it to a later date to give you time to ..? Mr. Knob: I don't think time is going to make a difference. I don't know if I want to start designing the property lines. I don't mind measuring. That is not a problem measuring to the house. The other thing is I would be inclined to make a statement of intent, but I don't think I want to make a proposal as to how it is actually going to look until somebody comes in there and says here is a house plan_ Fanuele: Can we grant a variance with the condition that all these her items has to be in place before ..? Mr. Sasser: That is exactly what the applicant wants us to do. To grant it with that provision, but we have to know what those provisions are. Wappinger Zoning Board Minutes - September 12, 7995 =age 10 Mr. Knob: I don't have a problem with the measurements of the house. That is easy enough to do. Mrs. Knob: Is that something that your Town Surveyor can come out and do? Mr. Sasser: No; he can't do that because we don't have a Town Our Town Engineers? Mrs. Knob: Yes. Mr. Sasser: No, I am sure the Town Engineers would not come out and do that_ Mr. Fanuele: Joel, what I am saying is if we could make them general and not specific and avoid the legal language, but make them general that the access to the back lots would come from this new road or drivewav that would be put in and would be shared with Walters Lane right-of-way. Those would be the basic conditions. If he wants to add things, then he would have to have all those documents in place. Mr. Sasser: That is true except for the fact that we are granting approval without knowing how wide the road would be and where it would be ;cated and it might be to the detriment to the other neighbor. He wants kW know how close the right-of-way would be from his house and I think it is a legitimate concern. Mr. Fanuele: What he is asking is, how close would the driveway be? Mr. Sasser: Right, how close would the driveway be? Mr. Fanuele: Basically, it could be right up on his property line or 22 feet away. So, somewhere within the middle would make sense as to where to put the driveway. Mr. Sasser: At this point and time, I personally don't want to see him denied the use of his property and I don't think we can deny you the use of the property. I would he willing to vote in favor of granting the variance even at this point and time if I knew that there would be a 10 foot right-of-way easement in favor of 616787, up the stretch of that property_ Mrs. Knob: A 10 foot easement up the strip on the northern side Mr. Knob: Parallel to Walters Lane_ Mr. Prager: Paper easement .... Mr. Sasser: Right; you would have a 10 foot easement paralleling Walters n e . Mr. Prager: Which would make it 25 feet. Mr. Sasser: Roughly 25 feet. Wappinger Zoning Board Minutes - September 12; 1995 Page 11 Mr. Mrs. Knob: That easement goes to 626789. Mr. Sasser: That is correct. Mr. Fanuele: This just came from the Fire Bureau? It was just handed to you? Mr. Lehigh: Yes. 14r. Fanuele: It says the current width of Walters Lane is 15 feet which is too narrow to allow access for fire apparatus_ Mr. Sasser: What I had suggested to solve that is another 10 feet to make it 25 fee-,,-- eet_ Mr. Fanuele: They suggest that the right-of-way should meet the requirements of the Town Specs. for roadway as to width. ;fir. Sasser: I understand that is probably what they want. Again; I don't think we should require someone who is looking for a driveway for their house to conform to Town road standards. We are talking about two houses there. We had requested information from the Town from the Highway Superintendent. Did everyone get a copy of that? Driveway requirements? That really deals with mostly grade_ . Lehigh: The length of it and then it tells you how far to pave it. Mr. Sasser: But, we are talking the first 25 feet of all driveways should he paved. That is something they will have to go through with the Building Department anyway. It is another 10 feet on top of the 15 feet. That is a 25 foot driveway going back there. That is certainly big enough for any fire truck to get through and any emergency equipment to get in. It is also wide enough that they can landscape or pave far enough over so that it is off of these peoples door steps_ Mr. Lehigh: They made a judgement based on what they submitted showing a 15 f t . widt'i Mr. Sasser: They are virtually saying the same thing that we are saying. Thev think that Walters Lane by itself is too narrow. They want something bigger. We are saving the same thing. Mr. Lehigh: I think if you are changing it, you should give them the gpportunity to look at it. Mr. Sasser: To what. 25 feet? Mr. Lehiah: Yes. Sasser: Does anyone know off the top of their head what the width of own road is required? Mr. Lehigh: No. I don't. Mr. Sasser: Connie, do you know that? Mr. Knob: If the Town is willing to take over the road and do the maintenance and do all of the things that a Town road requires, I might entertain that discussion. I don't think you are prepared to do that. Mr. Lehigh: I think anytime you build a road to their standards; to their Specs.; they are going to assume that. Mrs. Smith: Not necessarily.. Mr. Sasser: My personal feeling is that we got the opinion of the Fire Prevention Bureau. I certainly respect what they've said but, I think it is excessive to ask that it be the width of a Town road. Thirtv feet or forty feet, I personally feel that is excessive to ask that it be the width of a Town road. I don't know anybody who has a thirty foot wide r'riveway. For that matter, I don't know too many people who have a 25 %woot wide driveway. I don't personally have a need to go back and find out if 25 feet is acceptable to them. What is the pleasure of the Board? Mr. Lehigh: .lust according to what I read you are talking two different things. They're suggesting a roadway and you are talking about a driveway. Mr. Sasser: It is a driveway. Mr. Lehigh: Just to clarify that. Mr. Sasser: I myself don't need anything else from the Fire Prevention Bureau. How about anybody else? The Board agreed with Mr. Sasser. Mr. Sasser: If you could come back to us at the next meeting, first of all I would like to know if you would be willing to grant a 10 foot easement? Mr. Knob: Yes. Mr. Sasser: Secondly, I would like to know if you had a 10 foot easement I would like to know how far it is to your neighbors house on the other side. . Knob: You know it is going to be at lease 22 feet if nothing else because we have already said that the house is 10 feet from his property line. Mr. Sasser: Well, it's a pie shaped lot. I can't see the location of his Wappinger Zoning Board Minutes - September 12, 1995 Page 12 Mrs. Smith: I thought it was 50 from the center. I don't know. Do you want me to get the Specs.? Mr. Knob: Are we talking about a Town road or a driveway here? Mr. Lehigh: What Fire Prevention Bureau's recommendation was is that thev wanted you to build a Town road. Mr. Knob: If the Town is willing to take over the road and do the maintenance and do all of the things that a Town road requires, I might entertain that discussion. I don't think you are prepared to do that. Mr. Lehigh: I think anytime you build a road to their standards; to their Specs.; they are going to assume that. Mrs. Smith: Not necessarily.. Mr. Sasser: My personal feeling is that we got the opinion of the Fire Prevention Bureau. I certainly respect what they've said but, I think it is excessive to ask that it be the width of a Town road. Thirtv feet or forty feet, I personally feel that is excessive to ask that it be the width of a Town road. I don't know anybody who has a thirty foot wide r'riveway. For that matter, I don't know too many people who have a 25 %woot wide driveway. I don't personally have a need to go back and find out if 25 feet is acceptable to them. What is the pleasure of the Board? Mr. Lehigh: .lust according to what I read you are talking two different things. They're suggesting a roadway and you are talking about a driveway. Mr. Sasser: It is a driveway. Mr. Lehigh: Just to clarify that. Mr. Sasser: I myself don't need anything else from the Fire Prevention Bureau. How about anybody else? The Board agreed with Mr. Sasser. Mr. Sasser: If you could come back to us at the next meeting, first of all I would like to know if you would be willing to grant a 10 foot easement? Mr. Knob: Yes. Mr. Sasser: Secondly, I would like to know if you had a 10 foot easement I would like to know how far it is to your neighbors house on the other side. . Knob: You know it is going to be at lease 22 feet if nothing else because we have already said that the house is 10 feet from his property line. Mr. Sasser: Well, it's a pie shaped lot. I can't see the location of his Wappinger Zoning Hoard Minutes - September 12, 1995 P a a e l y house. So, I don't know for sure how far Again, at this point and time, I would be in favor to vote to grant you a variance. Mr. Knob: I don't think you need anymore information. Mr. Sasser: I am certainly leaning in favor of granting the variance, but I want to grant it with the provisions that this is done and it will improve that area and not affect the other two neighbors. Mr. Knob: I have no problem with you granting the variance subject to a 10 foot easement. Mr. Sasser: O.K., I think that we are going in the same direction. Mr. Knob: So, why don't we just do that? Mrs. Knob: I don't understand the measurements. Mr. Knob: You have it here on the survey. Mr. Sasser: I don't have anything on the survey that shows me the distance from his house. Not on the copy that I have. (Looking at the map.) If these numbers are all correct, and I have no reason to think that they are not because it is a certified survey. There would be from �corner of your house to the proposed easement, if they granted a 10 ot strip down the side of this, from the corner of your house to that driveway, the closest corner would be approximately 22 feet from that driveway. That would get wider as you go farther back and it could be a little bit more than that. Mr. Rohlinger: I have no objection to that. Mr. Sasser: Very good. Gentlemen, can we go forth tonight? We have not adjourned this officially, have we? Mr. Fanuele! No. Mr. Sasser: I don't believe we adjourned the public hearing. Is there anyone else who would like to speak with regard to this? Mr. Scott: What was actually decided? Mr. Sasser: Nothing has been decided vet, but I presume that momentarily there is going to be a motion made. If it was made to grant, the grant would be with a provision that they provide a 10 foot easement opposite the side of the road that your house is. Mr. Scott: Is that from the center line of Walters Lane or is that from the ..? . Sasser: 10 feet from the edge of Walters Lane into their property that both of those back lots would be able to use as a driveway. Mr. Lehigh: Are you going to make the driveway 10 feet ..? Wappinger Zoning Board Minutes - September 12, 1995 Page 14 Mr. Sasser: The driveway would be 10 feet; but they automatically have the right to use Walters Lane which makes it 25 feet. Mr. Lehigh: (Too low to transcribe_) Mr. Sasser: O.K., we can put it in the motion. It is in effect moving the driveway approximately another 10 feet away from the front of vourJ house. =Mr. Scott: What does that mean? Are you going to have two driveways side by s ide7 Mr. Sasser: I can't tell you that. All I can tell you is by law those properties have the right to use Walters Lane. Mr. Scott: I'm trying to visualize it. Mr. Sasser: We would make a recommendation to the Building nepartment and T believe what this gentleman is proposing is that when they put the driveway in, it would be put in along their easement. Air. Fanuele: The way that I understand it is that you would have yours on Walters Lane; over would be another driveway. Knob: I don't want to talk about another driveway. I think we would end up with one driveway. Mr. Prager: Mr. Sasser: One driveway that is 25 feet wide. Even though legally it is Walters Lane for 15 feet and an easement for 10 feet. When you look at it you will see one driveway going up. Mrs. Scott: Mr. Knob: And I don't have to put in a 25 feet wide driveway. All I have to do is put in a 10 foot easement in. they go over Mr. Prager: Right now you actually own approximately 7 1/2 feet of Walters Lane. Mr. Sasser: You have a right to use it. Mr. Prager: What we are saying is you are going to come over onto _your property 10 feet more so, really you will now have 17 1/2 feet, correct? Mr. Knob: Right. Mrs. Scott: But, at what point will they branch off? Are we going to both have the same entrance onto Osborn Hill Road? At what point will they go over the 10 feet? Mr. Sasser: That is not something that we're going to be able to termine because they have the right to use Walters Lane. I think you +'e going to have to get together and determine where you want to physically put the driveway in that is mutually acceptable to them. Mr. Knob: Nobody wants to have a driveway and a house sitting right on the driveway. That doesn't make anv sense_ Wappinger Zoning Board Minutes - September 12, 7995 Page 15 Mr. Sasser: They will be required, if I'm reading the Building correctly, they will be required to pave when they build another house back there. The first 25 feet or so of the driveway has got to be paved. They can't pave along Walters Lane because Walters Lane is not their property, it's just an easement. They don't have a right to pave that. They can only pave their 10 feet. MIXED nISCUSSIox Mr. Fanuele: To follow up, Mr. Scott's access to his property is through the new driveway? Mr. Lehigh: Yes, it has got to be. Mrs. Knob: I don't understand that. You mean we're not blacktopping Walters Lane, just the first 25 feet of the driveway ..? Mr. Fanuele: Of the new driveway. If I understood Joel correctly. Mr. Scott would get access off of the new driveway. + Mr. Knob: He doesn't want that_ tM,r. Fanuele: I think we need a drawing to show ... Mrs. Scott: As I understand it, we're both coming onto Osborn Hill Road on the same driveway, which is Walters Lane and then I don't know how many feet, but then it would gradually branch off on their own property to get+ to the back to lots. Mr. Knob: For the purposes of this, I will give a 10 foot easement along Walters Lane. When we actually go to put the driveways in we will probably swing it off Walters Lane so you can use it yourself and also Mr. Sasser: Well, if you grant the 10 feet you have 25 feet to actually put the driveway ... Mr. Prager: I would like to see the driveway. Mrs. Knob: You can't do that. Mr. Sasser: Let me take it one step farther than, would you be willing also to grant an easement to these people? Mrs. Knob: Nom_ Mr. Knob: Say what you were saving. Mr. Sasser: And everyone would come up with the first 25 feet of a iveway. Mrs. Knob: (Too low to transcribe.) Mr. Knob: Not really. Mrs. Scott: Right_ Mrs. Knob: If that is ... Mrs. Scott: our problem is that we don't want cars for two lots driving right up by the corner of our house. Wappinger Zoning Board And I agree with that. Minutes - September 12, 1995 What we are agreeing to is a 10 foot easement to the back Page 16 So, that the driveway ... Mr. Sasser: Mr. Sasser: Then; you will have to come back. point. You Mrs. Knob: .... They right now have access to their house on that 7 1/2 feet and I have no problem with that and they have no problem with that, is that correct? Mrs. Scott: Right_ Mrs. Knob: If that is ... Mrs. Scott: our problem is that we don't want cars for two lots driving right up by the corner of our house. Mr. Knob: And I agree with that. Mrs. Knob: What we are agreeing to is a 10 foot easement to the back property. So, that the driveway ... Mr. Sasser: I don't mean to interrupt you, but Mr. Prager has a very good point. You have 7 1/2 feet of Walters Lane. You will also have a 10 foot easement, which would allow you to pave almost 18 feet. Mr. Prager: That is what your going to pave of the 25 feet. That would he vour driveway_ Mrs. Knob: Let me ask you this, does all of the driveways in Wappinger Have to be 18 1/2 or 17 1/2 feet wide' Mr. Sasser: Thev don't. Mrs. Knob: Then, why does this driveway have to be 17 1/2 feet wide? Mr. Sasser: Because we are trying to mitigate _. Mr. Prager: For two lots back there. Mr. Knob: I would only use 10 feet of that and pave that 10 feet, it moves the driveway even further away from Allan's property. Mr. Prager: The Fire Prevention Bureau already has said that 15 feet isn't wide enough and you want to make it 10 feet. Is that what vour saving" Mrs. Knob: This 15 feet isn't wide enough for a Town road and I agree with that. Mr. Prager: Not for a Town road for fire apparatus going in to those two lots in the back, if they have to bring trucks in the back for those two lots. �bts. Knob: Another words, you are saying that all driveways in Wappinger has to be paved. Is that what your saying? Mr. Sasser: The first 25 feet has to be paved. I A kw 4 Wappinger Zoning Foard Minutes - September 12, 1995 Page 17 Mr. Knob: What does that have to do with fire trucks going up. thing is 25 feet wide. Mr. Prager: The width is what they want for the truck. The whole Mr. Fanuele.: If they have a fire in the back, the truck has to be able to get into the back. That means the whole road has to be able to support a fire truck. Mr. Sasser: Again, in my opinion, as long as they grant the 10 foot easement, I am willing at this point and time to vote on it and let them determine ... You can't stop anybody from using Walters Lane. Mr. Lehigh: (Unable to transcribe.{ Mr. Praaer: If you ever lived in that house, I hope that you feel that a fire truck can get back in there. Mr. Sasser: We do feel that way. First of all, by the Town Ordinance you have to have the first 25 feet paved. Mr. Knob: I don't have a problem with that. Mr. Sasser: In addition to that, you have to have a driveway that meets rtain grade requirements simply because they want to get fire apparatus in there_ Mr. Knob: When a building plan comes forward and the architect lays out the footprint and everything else, I would assume that it would have to be part of that plan or you can't get a building permit. I am not trying to get a building permit vet. I am Just trying to get a variance that allows me to go forward and take the next step and get Board of Health approval. Mr. Sasser: What are you gentlemen looking for? Mr. Prager: The extra 10 feet. Mr. Lehigh: I think to make it legally binding the easement would have to be changed. The 10 feet would have to be added to the 7 1/2 feet. Mr. Sasser: He already has the 7 1/2. Mr. Lehigh: I think that it will have to be added to it so that you actually change the easement for him. He is going to use one easement and the other gentleman is going to use another one Mr. Knob: I am going to have to get a lawyer to do the right thing to crake it all fit together. I understand that too. I don't think that we legally have the ability to discuss this here. . Sasser: I again, at this point and time, as I said I am willing to vote for the 10 foot easement and let them work out the .... I am comfortable with that. MIXED DISCUSSION! Wappinger Zoning Board Minutes - September 12; 1995 Pa e 18 g Mr. Sasser: That is between him and the Building Department. That is not our place to determine the driveway size. We just want to make sure that emergency vehicles can get back there. If he has 10 feet, there will be 25 feet for emergency vehicles to get back there. Any vehicle could get back there using 25 feet. Walters Lane will always be there and his 10 feet will always be there. Mr. Prager: O.K., right along Walters Lane. Mr. Sasser: He will change the deed to the property to grant in favor of 787; which means it will always be there. Mr. Fanuele: I make a motion that we grant the variance, but there would be one access off of Osborn Hill Road combined with Walters Lane to service the three lots in question. Mr. Sasser: Two lots. Mr. Fanuele: If I am using the same access for the three lots so I have to ... Mr. Lehiah: You still have to have him on there. Ml. Sasser: You don't, he still has his 7 1/2 feet to use without ever Ching his Actually, he could use all of Walters Lane to get to his use_ M -r. Fanuele: What we are saying is that we want one access on Osborn Hill Road. So, I would use Walters Lane for one access. Mr. Prager: Correct. Mr. Sasser: Correct. Mr. Fanuele: So, he would come in on part of Walters Land and Mr. Knob's property to get to his house and then the driveway would be extended to aet two services. Mr. Knob: Wouldn't it be easier to word this thing to he contingent upon my granting an additional 10 feet along side of Walters Lane. Mr. Sasser: Yes, to me that is enough. Mr. Prager: That is exactly what we want_ Mr. Sasser: With one access point on Osborn Hill Road. I have no problem with that. Is there anybody else who would like to speak? Motion t close the public hearing. �—. diPierno: So moved_ Mr. Praaer: Second. Vote: All aye-si. Wappinger Zoning Board Minutes - September 12, 1995 Page 19 Mr. Fanuele: I would like to make a motion to grant the variance that they would have one access on Osborn Hill Road and to add 10 feet to the right-of-way to service the one hack lot. Your lot is already serviced from Osborn Hill Road and there is a need for service for the one back lot. Mr. Sasser: He would grant an easement to service both 616787 and 624800. Mr. Fanuele: The lot 624800 would have access off of Osborn Hill Road and would supply access to 616787, which is the back lot. Mr. Sasser: O.K., let me just repeat that to make sure that I have it correct that your motion is to grant the variance provided that only one access will be maintained off of Osborn Hill Road and that parcel 624800 grant an easement of 10 feet in favor of property 616787 along the side of Walters Lane.. correct? Do I have a second? Mr. diPierno: Second. ROLL CAL -I. Vote: All aves. I -4a. Sasser: This decision will be written up much quicker than it was cussed and filed with the Town Clerk. Mr. Lehigh: I don't think we have a Negative Dec. on that because of where it was situated. I think we should declare a Negative Dec.. lir. Sasser: We don't need a public hearing for that so if you want to make a motion for that. Mr. Lehigh: I make a motion that we declare a Negative Dec. Mr. Fanuele: Second. Vote: All ayes. Mr. Sasser: That will be filed within 5 days. TAPE NOT WORKING - SUMMARTZED DISCUSSION Gasland Petroleum Co - To discuss Appeal ##1210 requesting a variance to operate a Sunoco Gas Station within 2500 feet of another filling station located on Route 9 and Old Hopewell Road in the Town of Wappinger. It was agreed that they need to get an interpretation from the Zoning A-ministrator as to Article IV, Section 400.5.2.3 which states "If such �400n-conformina use" of land, or any portion thereof, ceases for any reason whatsoever for a continuous period of more than two years, or is changed to a conforming "use", any future "use" of such land shall he in conformity with all provisions of the ordinance." �I Wappinger Zoning Board Minutes - September 12, 1995 Page 2tu An interpretation and a public hearing were set for September 26, MEETING ADJOURNED AT 8:53 P.M.. Respectfully submitted, C 199r, Mrs'. Linda Ng*Srery% Secretary Town of Wappinger Zoning Board of Appeals