1992-10-20n
Town of Wappinger Zoning Board
October 20, 1992
Minutes
Members Present
Mr. Sasser:
Mr. Lehigh:
Mr. Brooker:
others Present
Mr. Levenson:
° -we
Town Hall
20 Middlebush Road
Wappinger Falls, N.Y.
Chairman Mr. Hirkala: Vice Chairman
Member Mr. Bitterli
Member D MW� DMPFU
Zoning Administrator
SEC -is g?
Mrs. Hardisty: Secretary to the ZBA ZONING WWOFAft"
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Mr. Sasser: For the record Appeal # 1142 Timothy Mansell - there has been some
problems with the map. This has now been adjourned until November the 10th.
There has also been some problems with the abutting property owners.
Mr. Levenson: I make a request that you open and close, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Hirkala: I make a motion to continue the adjournment until November 10th.
I make a motion to open the adjourned public hearing.
1�wMr. Bitterlich: Seconded
Vote: All ayes.
Mr. Hirkala: Made a motion to adjourn to November 10th.
Mr. Bitterlich: Seconded.
Vote: All ayes.
Mr. Sasser: This has been adjourned until November 10th. There were some other
problems with notification of the adjoining property owners as well as the
problem with the map. I don't think we have the correct map, and that will be
checked as well. So, on November 10th this will be back on.
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Mr. Sasser: Appeal #1144- At the request of the Alpine Company of Pough-
keepsie, seeking a variance from Article IV Section 473.2 of the Zoning Law of
the Town of Wappinger, to allow parking spaces ten (10) feet by eighteen (18),
where the required parking spaces must be at least ten (10) feet by twenty (20)
feet, on property located on Route 9 and being parcel #6157-02-687634 in the
Town of Wappinger. Are you here from Alpine?
Mr. Kellog: Yes.
Mr.Levenson: Do you have the drawings in front of you? O.K., so that everyone
%w understands what's happened, the previous variance you granted where the B.J.'s
warehouse is going to go, the Alpine companies for S.C. has decided to move it
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Wappinger Zoning Board
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over onto five (5) acres of land from the ALKL. The ALKL property, better know
as the Klein property. Aside from doing that, Mr. Kellog will explain that the
future parking has been reduced by some two hundred and forty (240) spots.
Where the new parking is going, those two hundred and forty (240) spots in the
future parking are going in. So you'll be about a hundred and twenty some odd
spots short and that will be in the future parking area. The move was done,
Mr. Kellog will explain to you, for expediency purposes, for The ALKL Company
construction.
Mr. Sasser: O.K., correct me if I am wrong also, when we had the prior public
hearing on this same matter, weren't most of the objections over the locations
of the parking lots rather than the sizes of the stalls? People that were here,
who spoke, it seems to me, were concerned about people parking in locations.
Mr. Kellog: Two things happened, you know, as Herb said, three hundred and
ninety six spaces, down to one hundred and twenty in the reserve, and it is
basically cut off, so that the western third of it would remain. We are fur-
ther away from the neighbors and also with this plan.
Mr. Brooker: With this new plan that you are proposing right now, the future
parking is going to be reduced to what?
Mr. Levenson: This is the size of it right now. This is going to become one
hundred and twenty (120). Two hundred and seventy-six spots are going to go
ever here (pointing to the map).
Mr. Kellog: We'll provide two hundred and seventy more paved spaces right from
the outset as opposed to having that many reserved.
Mr. Levenson: The explanation of the reserve, after a certain amount of time
passes, they do a study on the parking and they decide that the future parking
will be built. There is an agreement that's been filed, by the Alpine Company,
with the town that they will go ahead and build the future parking.
Mr. Kellog: We're putting up a bond with the town to represent the cost of
construction of the future parking area. I think it's like fifteen hundred
dollars a parking space.
Mr. Sasser: Excuse me Mr. Kellog, before we go on, I neglected to request from
the clerk proof of publication.
Mrs. Hardisty: We have proof of publication and we have gotten the green and
white cards back.
Mr. Hirkala: Made a motion to accept proof of publication.
Mr. Bitterlich: Seconded.
Voted: All ayes.
**.4r. Levenson: The basic issue here is the size as filed, as per the previous
decision in order where they're asking for a ten (10) by eighteen (18) as
against the ten (10) by twenty (20).
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Wappinger Zoning Board
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Mr. Kellog: My feeling is, certainly, that we felt they were certainly right to
get it before and the same criteria should be applied. I feel even better
about this, as much as it appears to me, that it affects the neighbors even
less than it did before. The orientation is more towards Route 9 than along
the Ivanoff properties.
Mr. Hirkala: Possessive properties next to lands now or formally Leonard.
Mr. Levenson: That's the land site marked ALKL.
Mr. Hirkala: Do you have any plans to do any development on this property in
the future?
Mr. Kellog: No.
Mr. Hirkala: Does the subdivision erase the lot lines and make this one lot?
Mr. Kellog: Well, eventually I think that it will.
Mr. Hirkala: What I was talking about was this. We are looking at a situation
where you acquired property where you bought on the new property. Now, what I
want to know, is in the process of doing that are we erasing the lot line on
the Klein property?
1WWMr. Levenson: No, not yet.
Mr. Hirkala: Well, I think that is a mistake on our part.
Mr. Levenson: The thing is, is that it is an allowable use that's in the high-
way.
Mr. Hirkala: Oh sure, I know that. I know that. The same thing happened
before when the ACURA came in. They did not allow a lot line to be erased on a
private lot that would have gave them access to a private road. A residential
road through the parking lot. Now, what I'm concerned about is the fact that
in the future what's gonna happen is this will be a separate lot and they can
turn that into another separate lot.
Mr. Kellog: It's not a separate lot.
Mr. Levenson: It's not a separate lot.
Mr. Kellog: It's part of the parcel.
Mr. Hirkala: That's what I'm saying. This whole parcel is not one parcel. It's
multiple parcels.
Mr. Sasser: Everything that is being built here, I think you are saying
is now on one parcel.
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Mr. Hirkala: (Referring to map) This right here has a piece of property on here
with it. Right? Now is all that lot line being erased in the process of the
subdivision?
Mr. Kellog: But what I'm saying is there already is no lot line. That is not a
lot line.
Mr. Hirkala: I realize that. I'm not talking about that one. I'm talking
about whatever is out here. The fact is that the lot line that existed with
this fifteen (15) acres you bought now becomes part of a major parcel, right?
Mr. Kellog: It all becomes part of the shopping center parcel.
Mr. Hirkala: This all becomes one parcel.
Mr. Levenson: The only thing, at this particular time, in the approval by the
planning board last night, that they can not work the excess ten (10) acres of
the Klein property until such time that they meet all the requirements of the
conditional approval. Conditional approval is the new landscaping, the new
lighting drawing, address Mr. Paggi's comments in his October 19th letter, BOH -
DEC approval, that's it.
Mr. Lehigh: They are eventually planning on using that property.
Mr. Hirkala: They said at the last meeting that they'd be bringing about it
on the Hopewell Road.
Mr. Levenson: They are in option on that property. Mr. Klein is giving them
permission to put their parking lot 5/8's over.
Mr. Kellog: We have an installment contract with Klein.
Mr. Hirkala: Wait a second, do you even own the property yet?
Mr. Kellog: We don't have a title to it, we have an installment contract.
Mr. Hirkala: O.K., then I would like to make it part of the record that this
does not become a situation where there is no conclusion to the contract and
that they still have the variance of the property under lease.
Mr. Levenson: Jon Adams and Al Roberts are writing a covenant that will cover
your conditions right now. See, the Planning Board chairman is not going to
sign until everything is investigated.
Mr. Hirkala: I hear what you are saying, but how could we receive a plan
before us - a contract to purchase, it seems to me that the site plan approval
can not become legal until such time that they own the property.
Mr. Levenson: That's correct.
�,4r. Kellog: I don't know why the site plan approval can't become legal until
then. Who would benefit from it being legal?
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Mr. Hirkala: Well, the problem I have is, what's happening here, is all you are
doing is utilizing property under lease agreement.
Mr. Kellog: It's not a lease agreement.
Mr. Hirkala: It's an agreement that the contract is not finalized.
Mr. Kellog: No, it is an installment purchase contract. And that is one thing
that Herb was mentioning is that Al Roberts -
Mr. Hirkala: What is that then, specifically?
Mr. Kellog: That states out the payments that we are going to pay to Klein and
Alexander over the next two years. At the end of those payment terms when we
have achieved a purchase price, he turns over title.
Mr. Hirkala: Oh, in other words, you are purchasing the property from him
based on an installment.
Mr. Kellog: Right, that's all it is.
Mr. Hirkala: Oh, O.K., the title is still going to remain with him, but there
is definitely a purchase agreement?
4r. Kellog: Oh, absolutely. We've had it in effect since the beginning of
August and Herb has it on record.
Mr. Lehigh: You don't get the title until you pay for it.
Mr. Hirkala: That's right.
Mr. Levenson: Al would not let this come before this board if he -
Mr. Sasser: Well, I mean it is not the most common way to exchange titles.
Mr. Hirkala: All I'm concerned about is that the installment contract isn't
completed and the change of title isn't completed and we end up with picking up
the bulk.
Mr. Levenson: No.
Mr. Hirkala: We end up with another problem. Whoever is involved in this
decides not to keep paying off the property.
Mr. Levenson: Mr. Klein is going to agree.
Mr. Hirkala: Mr. Klein is going to agree that he will take the property back
and say, "Thank -you very much".
Mr. Levenson:
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Mr. Hirkala:
And he will develop.
In the meantime, we've already got a parking lot on there.
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Mr. Kellog: He's also saying, that covenant, that that improvement will stay in
place. And that he would not take over that parking lot. The contract is also
assignable to the bank that is funding the money for the project. So, they
will take over the payments as well. So there is double protection that the
parking lot will never go away and be used for something else.
Mr. Hirkala: Five (5) acres of the fifteen (15) acres is being utilized for
parking right now. What is to stop, in the event of failure, in the event that
that parking lot is now being used for parcel on an adjoing piece of property
and that adjoining piece of property is gonna have to utilize that parking to
make that building legal. I guess I'm still coming back to the point of fail-
ure to complete the contractual payments.
Mr. Levenson: These two buildings are going to be built. They are being built
right now.
Mr. Hirkala: Which ones?
Mr. Levenson: B.J.'s and Stop & Shop.
Mr. Hirkala: B.J.'s is on one parcel of land and the parking lot is on another
parcel of land. And the parking lot for B.J.'s, to make B.J.'s legal,
the parking lot that exists to create the back of B.J.'s is on another parcel
of land.
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Mr. Levenson: You're not approving the parking lot for B.J.'s, you're approv-
ing the Alpine Company's application for these two buildings.
Mr. Hirkala: Exactly, we're approving the whole parcel. So, if one parcel
goes down that means the whole approval is gone.
Mr. Levenson: What do you mean, one parcel?
Mr. Hirkala: Suppose the contractual agreement on this parcel is never com-
pleted.
Mr. Levenson: What are you pointing to? Which building? The Klein property?
Mr. Hirkala: Not the building, the contractual agreement on buying the proper-
ties never completed.
Mr. Levenson: There is an agreement being drawn right now that if it goes into
failure: #1 You have the bank who has got an assignment on it that will pay it.
And if they don't pay it Klein, it will be in the agreement, that he will
develop this property, leave the parking lot the way it is and develop this
job, if they don't develop.
Mr. Hirkala: What do you mean develop this job?
Mr. Kellog: He won't develop the building but he will leave the parking lot.
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Wappinger Zoning Board
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Mr. Kellog: He's going to leave the parking where it is, nothings going to
happen. He's got ten (10) acres to come in and put another building up and use
this parking lot.
Mr. Kellog: No, he can't. Whatever is done in the future has to be self suf-
ficient.
Mr. Hirkala: That parking is always going to be relevant to the entire parcel.
Mr. Levenson: This parking that you have in front of you is self supporting
of approximately two hundred and ten thousand square feet. These two build-
ings, we don't know anything beyond this point.
Mr. Hirkala: Oh, I realize that but that does not stop us from worrying about
what is going to go up here.
Mr. Levenson: The conditional approval from the Planning Board is that this
parking is supporting these two buildings and nothing else.
Mr. Hirkala: I hear what you are saying, O.K., but I'm still concerned, and
nobody has answered the possibility of the contractual agreement between the
two parties relative to the parcel of land known as the Klein property, not
being completed. If Klein takes hold of the property, that parking that is on
:here is still going to be part in parcel to the entire site plan here. So as
far as Klein is concerned he is going to be the only one owning that property,
it's a legal thing between him and the owners of the shopping center and has
nothing to do with the town because that parking is still part of that parcel.
He can only use ten (10) acres of it as a development area.
Mr. Levenson: That is correct and he has to develop the ten (10) acres with
parking.
Mr. Hirkala: With parking for the ten (10) acres. You have to use that park-
ing lot for those ten (10) acres.
Mr. Levenson: That is correct.
Mr. Hirkala: That's my concern. I want to make sure that what's going to happen
in the future is that we don't end up with a building over here on a separate
parcel and a parking over here and a tennis court in the middle. Then all of a
sudden there is going to be somebody coming before us looking for a variance
because they've got a hardship that's created by a legal situation that some-
body else did. Do you see what I'm saying? Things like that have happened in
this town over the years, where years later, the town has had to rectify situa-
tions that developed because of situations that existed between two parties,
that had nothing to do with the town. Where the town, in good faith, was help-
ing the developer go by and all of a sudden one of them flipped off and the
other one stayed around and we ended up with a problem. So, I just don't want
that to happen here. What I'm concerned about is that forever and ever, this
**.rparcel of land becomes a part of the use of these two buildings.
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Wappinger Zoning Board
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Mr. Levenson: The conditional approval that was granted by the Planning Board
calls for sixteen hundred and forty one (1641) parking spaces which a hundred
and twenty (120) will be future parking.
Mr. Hirkala: You and I both know, that five years from now, somebody is going
to come in here for a variance and we're not going to say, "No, you can't have
the variance, you've got to go to the Planning Board," that's not going to
happen. So we're going to end up with a short situation. If ever we get
caught in a situation where this is applied to another property, that's what my
concern is.
Mr. Levenson: It can't be applied to another property. There's an agreement
being drawn up right now.
Mr. Hirkala: Then I would put that in the variance as a condition of the vari-
ance that this property, well because of the variance always applied -
Mr. Levenson: That's fine.
Mr. Kellog: That's fine.
Mr. Sasser: Do you have any other questions? Does the board have any further
questions? Can I have a motion to open a public hearing?
.4r. Brooker: So moved.
Mr. Sasser: Seconded?
Mr. Bitterlich: Second.
Mr. Sasser: Is there anyone in the public that would like to speak for Alpine
or with regards to this matter? Let the record show that there is no one here
to speak.
Mr. Lehigh: I make the motion to close the public hearing.
Mr. Sasser: Seconded?
Mr. Hirkala: Second.
Mr. Sasser: Are there any other questions that the board has?
Mr. Lehigh: No, I think you covered it pretty well being as how the attorney
is going to write up a covenant to cover that and especially the band is going
to guarentee it, plus Mr. Klein is signed off on it. I don't see any reason
why they should have -
Mr Sasser: Myself, I don't see why they shouldn't either, under the same
stipulations and the same reasons that we granted before.
'*✓Mr. Bitterlich: I don't see why it comes right down to basically the Planning
Board, the town attorney, why do we have to put all these stipulations down
that's all been done before. I missed against that vote to put a stipulation
on it.
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Mr. Sasser: No one else has any objections to it.
Mr. Hirkala: Well, I object to it.
Mr. Hirkala: No one has made a motion on it yet.
Mr. Sasser: No, there is no motion. Do we have any other objections before we
go further?
Mr. Lehigh: I'll move for a negative dec.
Mr. Sasser: Seconded?
Mr. Hirkala: Second.
Mr. Sasser: All in favor?
Mrs. Hardisty: Role call.
Mr. Brooker: What's this on?
Mrs. Hardisty: Negative dec.
Mr. Brooker: Aye.
114wMr. Bitterlich: Aye.
Mr. Lehigh: Aye.
Mr. Hirkalla: Aye.
Mr. Sasser: Aye.
Mrs. Hardisty: All vote ayes.
Mr. Sasser: Mike would you like to make a motion.
Mr. Hirkala: I'll make a motion that the terms be granted to the conditions of
the variance of the parking lot, that the variance be requested on has grown to
be part of the permanent parcel. As it has been stated in the testimony.
Mr. Sasser: Mike would you repeat your motion so that I understand it?
Mr. Hirkala: That the variance stipulation is that the variance no longer
existed and the property is no longer part of the covenant that was testified
to is defaulted on and the parcel goes back to the original owner, that the
variance is gone, and that this property.... I don't know how to word it.
Mr. Sasser: I have to agree with you to a certain extent. I believe that the
alanning Board is trying to say that and I don't have any problems with one
V*.oecause nobody has any objections.
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Wappinger Zoning Board
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Mr. Hirkala: We've had this before and what's going to happen is that he's
going to be coming back to us again and putting us through the same rigmarole
and you'd be sitting there, if you're still on the board, saying "Gee, I feel
sorry for these poor people, they're suffering over something they had no con-
cern over and the reasons why the zoning law is written rotten...
Mr. Sasser: I also believe that the Planning Board is taking care of it and
that's their position. That's my feelings. Do you want to ...?
Mr. Hirkala: No, you go ahead. Do it your own way.
Mr. Sasser: I would like to see the motion made that they be granted under the
same stipulations that the previous one was granted. Will somebody move that?
Mr. Brooker: I shall move.
Mr. Sasser: Jim Brooker has made that motion. Do I have a second?
Mr. Lehigh: Second.
Mr. Sasser: All in favor?
Mrs. Hardisty: Role call.
Mr. Brooker: Aye. Mr. Hirkala: Aye.
Mr. Bittelich: Aye. Mr. Sasser: Aye.
Mr. Lehigh: Aye.
Mrs. Hardisty: All vote Ayes.
Mr. Hirkala: I've seen a lot of stuff when I've gone before the Planning Board
before and sat in meetings and listened to people come back in because they
have these problems that exist because of what has happened five years ago,
over and over again.
Mr. Lehigh: I make the motion to adjourn.
Mr. Brooker: I second the motion.
Vote: All ayes.
Respectfully submitted,
Dawn Idema, Secretary
"'own of Wappinger Zoning Board of Appeals Town Hall
October 20, 1992 20 Middlebush Road
Agenda Wappinger Falls, N.Y
Adiourned Public Hearing
Appeal # 1142 - At the request of Timothy Mansell, seeking a variance of
Article IV Section 421.6 of the Town of Wappinger Zoning Law where you are
required to maintain a lot of 40,000 square feet, and you are showing 37,773
square feet. Therefore requiring a 2,227 square foot variance, caused by the
Planning Boards requirement of a 25' right of way, on property located on
Theresa Blvd. consisting of 2 plus or minus acres and being parcel
#6257-03-410067 in the Town of Wappinger.
Public Hearing
Appeal # 1144 - At the request of the Alpine Company of Poughkeepsie, seeking a
variance from Article IV Section 473.2 of the Zoning Law of the Town of Wap-
pinger, to allow parking spaces ten (10) feet by eighteen (18), where the
required parking spaces must be at least ten (10) feet by twenty (20) feet, on
property located on Route 9 and being parcel # 6157-02-687634 in the Town of
Wappinger.