1985-08-29 PH
TOWN BOARD
TOWN OF WAPPINGER
COUNTY OF DUTCHESS
STATE OF NEW YORK
RECEIVED
SEP 5 1985
ELAIHE H. SNOWDEN
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IN THE MATTER OF A PUBLIC HEARING RE:
AN ORDINANCE INTRODUCING A MORATORIUM
ON CERTAIN CONSTRUCTION IN THE TOWN OF
WAPPINER, COUNTY OF DUTCHESS, STATE OF
NEW YORK
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Wappinger Junior High School
Remsen Avenue
Wappingers Falls, NY 12590
August 29th, 1985
7:30 o'clock p.m.
PRESIDING:
SUPERVISOR FRANCIS J. VERSACE
'''W'
BOARD MEMBERS:
COUNCILWOMAN RENATA BALLARD
COUNCILMAN JOSEPH INCORONATO
COUNCILMAN GERARD J. McCLUSKEY
COUNCILWOMAN IRENE PAINO
TOWN CLERK:
ELAINE H. SNOWDEN
COUNSEL FOR THE TOWN:
BERNARD KESSLER, ESQ.
Kessler Drive & Route 9
Hyde Park, NY 12538
PHILIP E. STILLERMAN, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
15 EAST RICKY LANE
POUGHKEEPSIE, NY 12601
(914) 462-3120
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SUPERVISOR VERSACE: May I have your attention,
please? This Public Hearing is ready to begin. I call this
Public Hearing to Order. Would the Clerk call the roll,
please?
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TOWN CLERK SNOWDEN: Supervisor Versace?
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: Here.
TOWN CLERK SNOWDEN: Councilwoman Ballard?
COUNCILWOMAN BALLARD: Here.
TOWN CLERK SNOWDEN: Councilman Incoronato?
COUNCILMAN INCORONATO: Here.
TOWN CLERK SNOWDEN: Councilman McCluskey?
COUNCILMAN McCLUSKEY: Here.
TOWN CLERK SNOWDEN: Councilwoman Paino?
COUNCILWOMAN PAINO: Here.
TOWN CLERK SNOWDEN: All Town Board Members are
here, sir.
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: Thank you. Would you
verify the Posting of the Public Hearing?
TOWN CLERK SNOWDEN: I would like to offer, for
the record, not only the Affidavit of Posting of the Public
Hearing, but also the Affidavit of Publication in the
matter of the Public Hearing on an Ordinance Introducing
a Moratorium on Certain Construction In The Town of
Wappinger.
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"In the Matter of A Public Hearing on an Ordinance
Introducing A Moratorium on certain Construction In The
Town of Wappinger.
"please take notice that the Town Board of the Town of
Wappinger will conduct a Public Hearing on August 29, 1985
at 7:30 p.m. at the Wappinger Junior High School, Remsen
Avenue, Wappingers Falls, New York on an Ordinance
Introducing a Moratorium on Certain Construction in the
Town of Wappinger.
"An Ordinance Introducing A Moratorium On Certain
Construction In The Town of Wappinger.
"BE IT ORDAINED as follows:
"Section 1: The Town Board of the Town of Wappinger, in
order to consider, generate and adopt an amendment to the
comprehensive master plan and zoning ordinance and map; to
provide for the orderly improvement, development and growth
of the entire area of the Town of Wappinger; to afford
adequate facilities for the purposes, uses, transportation,
distribution, comfort, convenience, public health, safety
and general welfare of its population; for effective water
and sewer resources, governmental services and enviromental
effects and in order to provide for an orderly transition
within the time necessary to accomplish same and to prevent
development inconsistent with the proposed amendment to the
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comprehensive master plan and to provide for a moratorium
for six months in order to accomplish same, in the interest
of promoting proper government and to insure proper pro-
tection, orderly conduct, safety, health, welfare and
well-being of the population within the Town of Wappinger,
finds it in the best interest to enact this ordinance.
"Section 2: General Provisions. No person,
corporation, firm or entity shall conduct or establish any
residential use of real property, or construct residential
buildings on land exceeding two lots anywhere within the
Town of Wappinger for a term of six months from the
effective date of this ordinance.
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"Any person desiring a variance must submit two copies
of his layout or plot plan showing actual dimensions of the
plot to be built upon, the setbacks and area of the building
and accessory buildings to be erected and all evidences of
applications in conformity with other municipal authorities'
requests and in conformity with all applicable rules, reg-
ulations and laws.
"The Town Board, at the next meeting, shall deem whether
or not such application for a variance is compatible with
the master plan or the proposed amendment to said plan of
the Town of Wappinger as it then exists.
"If the Town Board deems that such variance is
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compatible, it shall forward such application for variance
and all supporting documents to the Zoning Board of Appeals.
Said Board, at its next meeting or a special meeting, shall
consider the variance and give its recommendations with
respect to the variance. After the Zoning Board of Appeals
reaches a final decision, it will make recommendation to the
Town Board at the next regular meeting so that the Town
Board can take necessary action.
"Section 4: Exceptions. Lawful use of any premises
existing on the effective date of this ordinance may be
conducted, provided however, such non-conforming use shall
not be enlarged and the premises shall not be altered unless
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a variance is granted under the ordinance.
"Section 5. Enforcement. This ordinance shall be
enforced by the Zoning Administrator. It shall be the duty
of the Zoning A
dministrator to advise the Board of all matters pertaining
to the enforcement of this ordinance and to keep all records
necessary and appropriate to same.
"Section 6. Separability. Should any section or
provision be deemed invalid, such decision shall not affect
the validity of the remaining provisions of this ordinance.
"Section 7. Violations. Any persons violating any
provisions of this ordinance shall be guilty of an offense,
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and upon conviction thereof, be punished by a fine not
exceeding $250.00 or imprisonment not to exceed 90 days.
For the purpose of conferring jurisdiction upon the Court,
violations of this ordinance shall be deemed a misdemeanor,
and for such purposes the laws relating to misdemeanors
shall apply to such violations for procedural matters.
Every week's continued violation after notice shall
constitute a separate additional violation. All other
interested persons, in addition to other remedies, may
institute any appropriate action or proceeding with respect
to violation of this ordinance, as provided by Section 268
of the Town Law.
"Section 8. Effective date. This ordinance shall
become effective upon posting and publication as provided by
Town Law."
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: Thank you, Elaine. This
evening the Town Board will receive comments on the proposed
moratorium. And, the procedure to be used is that I will
start from my left, your right, asking anybody who wishes to
speak, do so, and then going from the first row, to the
second, third, fourth row. And, we will do the middle
section first, and then to the far sections, to the left,
and the right which will be last. And, I believe that three
minutes is the time period that we will set for your
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comments. We will restrict your comments to three minutes
since we have a rather large audience this evening and we
have to be out of the auditorium by 10:00 tonight. If we
have time, we will go around again, through the audience and
ask for more comments. I request that when you do come up
to speak, that you give your name and address. We have a
Court Reporter present who is taking down all the comments,
all the information, that will be said tonight. Now, I will
start with the very center aisle, and begin with the first
row. If you don't identify yourself, your remarks will not
be recorded. But, we have one member of the Town Board, Mr.
Incoronato, who wishes to speak, and I will entertain him
first, and then we will start on the comments from the
audience.
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COUNCILMAN INCORONATO: Thank you, Frank. Good
evening and welcome everyone. Before hearing your comments
I want to make some introductory remarks to set the stage
for tonight's meeting. First, I'll briefly characterize the
explosive growth this Town has experienced during the last
25 years. For instance: A tripling of the population since
1960 from 10,000 people to 30,000 presently; our population
density is more than three times as great as the average
Dutchess County population; with about 50% of Wappinger's
almost 17,000 acres yet to be developed, the potential
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exists for doubling the size of this municipality to 60,000
people.
Clearly, this reckless pace of development tends to
strain not only the municipality's resources, but it does
threaten the stability of the school district as well.
Consequently, while we don't intend to seal off the
Wappinger border, we must shift gears to achieve orderly
growth. Otherwise, we are simply sowing the seeds of
tomorrow's slums.
The intent of the proposed moratorium is to help us
manage future growth and more intelligently, based on the
Town's ability to absorb and support more housing. Accord-
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ingly, this action would suspend residential construction of
three or more homes for a period of six months. However,
the moratorium would not have any affect on fully-approved
residential, or commercial/industrial developments. Any
property owner seeking relief for due cause could appeal to
the Town Board for relief from the ban.
If approved, residential construction will be shelved
during the fall and winter -- the construction slack season
__ when it would tend to have a minimal impact on building.
Yet, it would postpone the approval of numerous residential
subdivisions nopw on the drawing board.
To put the moratorium in perspective, please recognize
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that the Wappinger zoning ordinance is a framework whose
fundamental objectives include: Preventing overcrowding of
the land and undue population congestion; providing adequate
sewage facilities; safeguarding the water table; avoiding
flooding and damage from storm water runoff; assuring the
free flow of vehicular traffic; encouraging sound management
of natural resources throughout the Town; and, preserving
the natural beauty of the Town.
Toward this end, the present administration has gone the
extra mile to strengthen our zoning regulations, and to deal
with the chaos we had inherited from the former adminis-
tration last year.
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For example, in April 1984, we enacted a Soil Erosion
and Sediment Control Law to protect the environment and
landscape during construction. Last December, the Special
Use Permit process was upgraded. I believe this section of
the ordinance will continue receiving increased scrutiny as
the Town strives to limit the commercial activities now
allowed in residential areas.
Further, the formation of a Citizens Zoning Advisory
Council in January -- including active participation by five
key members of the Planning Board and Zoning Board of
Appeals -- has resulted in a series of major zoning improve-
ments this year. And, I might add that all these actions
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recieved bipartisan support from the Town Board members,
despite political differences. While zoning reform has come
a long way, we're not out of the woods yet.
In the wake of unbridled growth, we've witnessed very
damaging effects on our community, including water short-
ages, septic waste pollution, flooding, traffic con-
gestion, inadequate recreation, and the destruction of
environmentally sensitive areas that should have been
protected and preserved.
When public officials make bad land use decisions, when
they ignore sound planning practices, the upshot is that
expensive remedial actions must be taken later on. For
example, it's vital to preserve as much woodlands as
possible, because vegetation typically intercept 90 percent
of the rainfall they receive. But, when woods are cleared,
the amount of rainfall intercepted drops to about five per-
cent. Thus, the amount of stormwater runoff leaving an
area increases noticeably as development intensifies. What
does this mean? Well, the cumulative results of such
increases in runoff are: less water percolates into the
ground, paving the way for eventual water shortages; more
serious flooding of downstream land; greater demands on
storm drainage systems; and, increasing erosion of soils and
stream channels. The ongoing drought is a grim reminder
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that we can barely provide sufficient water for our present
numbers, let alone doubling the population in this area. In
fact, a serious concern about the critial need to protect
the quantity and quality of our limited fresh water supplies
is voiced in the Dutchess County Master Plan
"Directions". The problem is highlighted in the following
excerpts from the Master Plan: "Soils with low permeability
appear throughout Dutchess County, but are most extensive in
the County's western half." That's us folks. "These soils
have poor drainage characteristics that severely limit their
ability to absorb water and filter wastes." And, "over-
crowding of the land that prevents adequate treatment and
dilution of septic wates can cause serious health problems
by contaminating groundwater supplies." And, "maximum
tolerable densities have been estimated for the County based
on groundwater quality considerations. For areas that
depend on subsurface waste disposal, recommended maximum
densities for dwellings are: Four acres, clays and silts;
2.1 acres, thick glacial till; 1.3 acres, thin soil over
bedrock; and 0.5 acres, thick sand and gravel."
"Local governments should use permeability, depth and
other applicable soil characteristics to devise basic limits
on allowable development densities."
I believe that this approach, town development based on
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soil characteristics, and their ability to provide safe
water recharge for our aquifers, and sufficient waste
filtration capability, is the key to future land use in
Wappinger. A moratorium will buy us sufficient time to
perform these essential soil studies and come up with a
prudent approach to future development. This six month
period would also allow the Citizens Zoning Advisory Council
sufficient time to conclude its present review, and allow
the Planning Board to overhaul its subdivision regulations.
If and when the temporary suspension is declared we will
continue to call upon our Town, County, and State officials
to contribute their expertise to revise Wappinger's develop-
ment blueprint. Beyond that, we remain open and receptive
to the ideas of all our Town residents.
And, now for the burning issue of the evening: Why
can't we undertake these changes without a moratorium? We
really have no choice, because the intended revisions are
complex and will take up to six more months to plan and
execute. During this period, without the moratorium
safeguard in place, it's possible that many more sub-
divisions could be approved under existing, faulty zoning
regulations. Such approvals would contradict and negate the
intended changes we are seeking. So, to avoid repeating
errors embodied in our present ordinance, it is imperative
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that we defer further residential approvals until we clear
up the minefields in our regulations.
So, ladies and gentlemen, does the Versace Adminis-
tration have a clear idea of what we want to accomplish in
the event of a six month moratorium? The anwer is a
resounding "yes".
Now, I would like to turn back the floor to Supervisor
Versace so you can share your views with us this evening.
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: I will entertain other
Board Members' comments now before we take the comments from
the audience. Since there are none, I will go to the first
row the first two rows are from the news media, news-
papers in the area, so I will go and start with the third
row, on the left, if there is anybody that wishes to speak,
raise your hand, please. Yes, sir.
MR. ZAMMIELO: Tim Zammielo, 9 Rich Drive, Angel
Brook Estates. Will there be other meetings, other than
this one, since we did not have
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: Your address, sir?
MR. ZAMMIELO: 9 Rich Drive. Will there be more
meetings other than this one?
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: You're asking me this
question at this time?
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MR. ZAMMIELO:
Yes.
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SUPERVISOR VERSACE: I am here to hear comments.
MR. ZAMMIELO: That's what I am asking. If
there is going to be additional meetings.
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: At this time I can not
answer that. If you have comments, however, I will
appreciate the comments.
MR. ZAMMIELO: My comment is I am a building,
and we had the same situation in LaGrange, and it was worked
out. They were going to go to a moratorium, and decided
against it. They came up with meetings with business people
in the area, and developers, and I am curious if something
like that can be worked out in the Town of Wappinger instead
of a cease and desist type of order.
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: Thank you for your comments
and going to the next person, then?
MR. CORTELLINO: Charles Cortellino, 11 Russ
Place. And, it's not a comment, so much as a question.
Section 3 where it reads "application for a variance is
compatible with the master plan or the proposed amendment to
said plan of the Town of Wappinger" do you mean this as
an ordinance, or do you mean now as it's amended, or an
amendment to the zoning ordinance? I don't understand.
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: You're asking a question.
MR. CORTELLINO: Yes. How can I comment?
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SUPERVISOR VERSACE: I don't have an answer for
you this evening. We are having a public hearing, Mr.
Cortellino. Do you support the moratorium in the Town of
Wappinger, or whatever other comments relating to that. If
you have a question, I will answer it, if I can, later.
MR. CORTELLINO: Again, Section 3 -- I don't
know -- I realize the Town Board appoints members to the
Zoning Board of Appeals, that's a power, and somebody is
giving the power, can take it away, can take away the power,
but once you set up the Zoning Board, whether you can act as
a Zoning Board and pass it back to us again, with comments,
or indirectly, it's a comment, when you decide if it meets
your approval, then it's two Boards acting as one Board, and
I don't know if that is legal. That's my comment.
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: Thank you. Next?
Continuing with the same row? Yes, ma'am? Your name and
your address, please?
MS. ROWE: Jeanne Rowe. I am the Executive
Officer of the Builders Association of the Hudson Valley,
based in Newburgh, New York; and I have a paper that I would
like to read from.
"The Builders Association of the Hudson Valley is a pro-
fessional trade association serving the home building
industry here in the Hudson Valley. We are affiliated with
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the New York State Builders Association and the National
Association of Horne Builders. Since our establishment in
1952, we have seen significant growth in the Mid-Hudson
region during the various building cycles, some incorporat-
ing sound planning for the future and others, unfortunately,
with a sporadic eye at future growth.
"We would point out that the bulk of our membership and
collective employees are native Mid-Hudson residents whose
best interests are served by good planning and orderly
growth.
"We feel that efficient and responsible town management
is the on-going responsibility of its elected officials,
regardless of party affiliation or political ramifications.
It should not be viewed as a political platform in an
election arena.
"Our Association is not opposed to a town-wide review of
planning and construction; in fact, we wholeheartedly
endorse one. Our members estimate that present review
practices in the Town, in essence a de facto moratorium,
conservatively adds $3000 to $4000 to the cost of a typical
single-family residence. These costs relate directly to the
additional time needed to obtain building permits and
certificates of occupancy and the additional architectural
and engineering time required by multiple sub- missions. In
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addition, these delays often cause personal hardship and
emotional stress for the future resident of the town. This
is reflected in financing complications, missed closing
schedules, unnecessary relocation, placement of children in
schools, etc. This was aptly reported in the June 27, 1984
issue of the Southern Dutchess News when one of your own
town employees lost an opportunity to build their dream home
in Wappingers as a result of extraordinary delays in routine
building permit procedures. It is of value to note that
Wappingers, alone of the towns, villages and cities within
our five county association, has this added cost factor.
Unfortunately, this cost must be built into the price of the
homes, thus the ultimate burden is placed upon the new
residents of the Town. We are concerned that this problem,
which has existed for 18 months or more, will continue and
Wappingers residents will pay unnecessarily more for their
homes than those in nearby towns.
"The Regional Plan Association, a non-profit civic
organization monitoring the region's economy since 1922,
stated recently that 'municipalities have to relate jobs to
housing. They no longer should allow business and industry
to bring new jobs to their communities without giving any
consideration to where the people who are going to fill the
jobs are going to live.' The Dutchess County Housing Task
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Force, recently formed by County Executive Lucille Patterson
went so far as to recommend special incentives to builders
to encourage construction of affordable housing in an area
demonstrating a shortage of available units.
"The Town of Wappinger issued 114 building permits for
1984 and for the first six months of this year, tradition-
ally the most active time for permit applications, an
additional 77 permits for one-family houses, including
semi-detached, row, and townhouses. This compares with 328
in the Town of East Fishkill, 174 for LaGrange, and 215 for
the Town of Poughkeepsie. These numbers do not substantiate
the town's concerns regarding 'runaway growth' in the
community.
"We have heard on numerous occasions that Wappingers has
problems which would be detrimental to their community if
not vigorously addressed. Availability of water, impact on
existing sewer systems, etc., are valid concerns, but not
unique by any means. Several townships, when faced with
similar problems in a proposed growth area, have put
restrictions in place pertinent to the individual project or
area, whether residential or commercial, to protect future
homeowners as well as existing surrounding populations until
the problems were adequately addressed and ultimately
resolved. A blanket moratorium is prohibitive to every
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residential developer and future homebuyer regardless of
impact to the community.
"Although an artificial shortage would seemingly
increase present property values, the long term effects of
such action will have the following effects: 1. Lost wages
for residents who are stopped from construction work in the
Town; those working in service industries related specific-
ally to construction activities; and the almost unending
ripple effect upon all industries such as restaurants,
groceries, gas stations, etc; 2. The lost mortgage tax
revenue that the Town would receive from mortgage trans-
actions on new homes; 3. The lost sales tax revenue the
County would receive thus in turn requiring an increase in
County land taxes; 4. Decline in the Town revenue from
building permit and related inspection fees; 5. For an
extended moratorium, a reduced tax base as assessments must,
by law, be reduced for property owners whose use of the land
is barred by Town activities; 6. Potential litigation
costs from those property owners who would seek to contest
the Town's actions through the Courts.
"Since the Town, by virtue of its procedures, has in
essence stopped growth, the moratorium only seeks to legit-
imize current practices.
"We would like to offer the experience and expertise
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available within our own organization, coupled with the
resources of the state and national associations, to assist
the Town of Wappingers' officials in their review of exist-
ing plans and ordinances, so that the extreme action of a
moratorium be deemed counterproductive."
Thank you.
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: Continuing on, then? Yes,
sir?
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MR. RIDER: Mr. Supervisor, Members of the Town
Board, I am David Rider, Counsel to the Builders Association
of the Hudson Valley, and I have a few additional comments
to add as to the --
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: May we have your address?
MR. RIDER: I have an office in Newburgh, New
York. It is a personal pleasure to be here because you were
our guest a few months ago, discussing before our Assoc-
iation what you thought the problems concerning planning and
building were in the Town. Our responses, we hope, were
constructive, and I mean it that way. It is hard to argue
with legitimate motives of overall planning. It is easy to
argue what has taken place in the Town for the past 18
months. Briefly, it's been arbitrary and capricious, and
individual, and unwritten and low-level decision making, and
non-decision making, with an inordinate delay and extreme
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expense and arguement. It seems to be "we don't know what
to do" and you are all ready to argue that, and somebody
thinks they have the right idea, and it's in planning, and
"we'll go into it" as opposed to back fighting, when the
Planning Board, Town Board, and various officials that have
to rule on the applications.
We have offered the help of our organization of the Home
Builders, a five county organization with 225 members to
assist you in the process. We tell you we would like to
monitor the process and monitor it for fairness, every case,
and monitor it for reasonableness. And, we will look care-
fully at everything, and help keep the light shining. Our
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purpose, really, as you know, is largely economic for every-
body here. We are concerned with costs that people have to
pay for builders' products. We are concerned with unreason-
able delays. Delays are money. People have to pay in this
Town far too much for the product, as a result of the delays
and when they are selective, and the rules are not written,
bigotry can be the by-rule, who you know can be the by-rule,
and that seems to be what is happening here. And, it is a
shame and travesty.
And so, Supervisor Versace, and Members of the Board, we
will stand ready to cooperate with you, and ready to assist
you, and we ask you to call upon us. Whether you do so or
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not, we will watch, and we will comment.
Thank you.
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: Continuing on, then.
MR. ELMAN: Herbert Elman, Ardmore Drive. I
have lived here, in the Town, for two decades, and remember
when the homes were -- and in the last few weeks I've not
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been able to wash the car, water the garden, and for two
years I've not been able to safely make a left turn onto
Myers Corners Road, Spook Hill Road, between 4:30 and 6:30
p.m. And, next week I'll not be able to flush my toilet
because there is no place for the sewage to go. Yet the
newspapers and editorials say "build, build, build" because
Wappingers and the people need it. The moratorium is a good
idea, a good thing. Examine our resources and plan where we
are going. Slow growth is the way it should be done. This
Town was developed for too many years without regard to the
master plan.
And, now we are paying the price. Builders
groan and claim an interest, and those moving into the Town
__ what about those here. We don't want to slam the door
closed, but open it enough so we don't suffer the after
effects. The builders have an economic interest to
seeing the moratorium defeated. No other interests in the
Town, and the ugliness of the new developments, and the lack
of planning of the new areas, and the continued need for
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variances for squeezing out the extra footings, and improp-
erly installed roads, and a list that is endless -- and how
many builders are Town residents? The moratorium would ben-
efit a great range of people, those here, those that will
come, and what we shall have to live with.
[APPLAUSE FROM THE AUDIENCE.]
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: Continuing, then, please.
And, I remind the speakers that there is the three minute
time limit.
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MS. YANITELLI: Jeannette Yanitelli, Route 9D,
Garrison. Mr. Versace, and Town Board Members, we have met
many times in the past
SUPERVSIOR VERSACE: Your name, and address,
again, please?
MS. YANITELLI: Jeannette Yanitelli, Route 9D,
Garrison, New York 10524. -- and I would like to ask Mr.
Incoronato, and the Town Board, whose idea was it for a
moratorium, in the beginning?
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: I believe tonight's meeting
is for a Public Hearing, for us to hear the comments of the
public as to whether or not you support it, whether you feel
it is good for the Town of Wappinger, whether or not you
feel it is good for the Town. And, I think, at this time,
if you questions the Members of the Board, as last time this
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happened, it did get out of hand, and I believe we have
quite a crowd this evening. If you wish to state whether
you support or are against the moratorium, and make comments
as to that, you may. If you wish to make other comments, or
ask questions, you may come to the meeting on Tuesday,
September 3rd, or 4th, which is a regularly scheduled Town
Board meeting. We can put it on the agenda, and we'll
answer your questions then.
MS. YANITELLI: Is the moratorium strictly a
move to change the zoning plans again? I am against all
moratoriums.
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SUPERVISOR VERSACE: Just your comments, please.
MS. YANITELLI: Is the moratorium to give you
time to change the zoning plan?
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: Again, we made a statement.
If you have statements to make relative to the moratorium,
we will hear them now.
MS. YANITELLI: And, you have defacto zoning in
Wappingers, is that correct?
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: Again, I will state the
fact that this is a Public Hearing. The Board is here to
hear the comments from the residents, builders and the
professional people. However, you can state your comments
relating to supporting the moratorium, or against the
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moratorium. And, if you have questions, you can come to the
meeting.
MS. YANITELLI: That's the Tuesday after Labor
Day.
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: I will answer all questions
then.
....
MS. YANITELLI: I am against the moratorium for
a number of reasons. For twenty years, namely, the property
owners in the Town who started to do a project, and then
zoning changed, and you can not get anything approved, and
you change your laws, and the people who bought the property
and have had it for years and years as an investment, and
you come along and change the rules on them, and we can not
get anything done as far as future planning goes. So, I
think your first need is to go to the people who are buying
and who have bought and paid taxes in Wappingers, and be in
tune to their needs, rather than a moratorium stopping
everything. And, I am against the moratorium.
Thank you very much.
[APPLAUSE FROM THE AUDIENCE.]
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: Comments from the next
person?
MR. RAILING: Jack Railing. I am an engineer in
Poughkeepsie, I have an office in Wappingers. Good evening,
-...
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Mr. Supervisor. I would like to say, tonight, that as an
engineer submitting plans for many of the builders in the
Town of Wappingers, I would like it to be a party of
interests in the procedure in the development of this
particular ordinance, and I would like to be involved in any
of the comment periods relating to the State Environmental
Quality Review relating to the ordinance.
I had several questions tonight, to ask, relating to the
ordinance, but I see we are not allowed to ask questions. I
don't recall a Public Hearing where that has happened
before, at least not the meetings I've gone to. And, as
such I would like to be a party of interest.
Thank you.
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: Thank you, sir. Continuing
with the same row, or going on to the next row? Yes, sir?
MR. STENGER: I am Ken Stenger, an attorney
residing in the Town of Fishkill. I represent several
builders who build in the Town of Wappinger, a lots more
people moving into the Town of Wappinger, and I continue to
represent people living in the Town of Wappinger. We are a
small County, and we rely on each other. It is an inter-
related community. The reason I came to the meeting is I
hoped to point out I hoped to get more information as to
how the proposal will be -- will impact on my clients, the
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'....
builders; and my clients, the purchasers of homes in
Wappingers; and my clients who have purchased homes; and I
hoped to address questions, and I hoped to have my questions
answered. I had hoped to have an opportunity to ask if this
will be applied to subdivisions, and to ask how it's going
to impact on the citizens that I do represent. The ideas is
that this will impact on nine other communities.
My only other comment is that the Public Hearing,
Meeting, is being held in a school setting, and I thought
that it was not a meeting for the exchange of views, but I
hoped that tonight we could exchange factual information,
and also exchange views, and ask the Board during the
balance of the meeting relevant questions, and to ask the
Board to consider to -- to presume what I consider to be a
traditional focus for many of the Town meeting being for us,
for us to say to you what our feelings are. But, sir, if
you are going to be making decisions, and if you are going
to be controlling our livelihoods and cultur, then we should
be able to ask questions and get answers and interpretations
and those are my comments.
Thank you.
'.....
[APPLAUSE FROM THE AUDIENCE.]
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: Again, the Board is here,
this evening, to receive comments from the audience. I will
.....
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be glad to dedicate myself to any group of individuals, pro-
fessionals, that want direct answers from me. We have a
time limit of two and a half hours this evening, and I want
to hear from everybody in this room. But, if you people
want to set aside time to find out why the moratorium was
proposed, I would be glad to discuss that with you. If you
wish to know why some problems that I've heard related this
evening occurred we can discuss that then, too. It seems
that professional people have done nothing wrong in the Town
of Wappinger, and the Town Board is doing every-
thing wrong. Again, if you wish to set aside time to
discuss it, I will be glad to debate the pros and cons of a
moratorium. But, tonight I want to hear comments. The last
time we had a Public Hearing, it got out of hand, and it was
commented in the local newspaper that I was "ring master of
a circus". And, I have to agree because the people there,
that evening acted like it was a circus. I hope we don't
have a repeat of that, but I see the trend going in that
direction.
We will continue, now with the next person. Raise your
hand if you wish to speak, please. Yes, sir?
MR. MUKHERJEE: Partha Mukherjee, 18 Spring Hill
Court, Wappingers Falls. We bought a house from Landolfi
Homes January 27, 1984. At that time I had a temporary C.O.
.....
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-29-
And, today, I still have it. I still don't have a C.O. on
my house because the builder did not finish the grading and
it's not only my house, but every house he built in the
whole Spring Court. And, there's erosion in the area.
Everything is washing down the drainage system. It's not
good. The Builders' Association came four or five months
ago to see the whole area, and after that, nothing. Nothing
stable has been done, or happening. In the last two years I
wrote to the Attorney General, and the Senators, but nothing
is done. No progress. It's like a standstill. I don't
know what to do with it. I can not sell the house, and I
can not move. The whole area of Spring Hill Court is
totally a mess.
Thank you.
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: Any other comments in that
row? If you wish to speak at this time, please raise your
hand. Yes, sir?
MR. BOWE: Bob Bowe, 17 Spring Hill Court. My
only comment is I favor the moratorium, as Partha said,
before me, our neighborhood is a shambles from the builders
who were of no quality, and I feel that it should be the
Town's place to take the time to work in the best interests
of the people in the Town.
Thank you.
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...
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: Yes, ma'am?
MS. COBBLESCALE: Susan Cobblescale, 15 Spring
Hill Court. The builder left us with a 15 foot drop, a
cliff, behind the house, four or five foot ruts that he
has not fixed yet, and I've lived there a year and a half,
and I have no C.O. The list goes on and one with piles of
problems with the house, and not just mine, but a lot of the
houses. We have to live with these problems day in and day
out. He does not care. He does not live in Wappingers
Falls even. And, I am still paying for his mistakes, up to
$9000. Don't tell me about the figures, low figures, we are
paying. We get hit with his afterwards. The Town Board
should be responsible for the best interests of those living
in the Town, and our best interests are not protected. The
Town should take -- inspect it brick by brick to ensure the
quality of the building growth.
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: Anybody else? Going across
in that row? Yes, ma'am?
MS. O'CONNOR: Jean O'Connor, Cross Ridge Road,
in the same development that the people who just spoke. We
moved up four and a half years ago, and we also had a very
wise builder who was interested in his own pocket because
he declared bankruptcy and skipped town for Florida. And, I
am for the moratorium. And, I believe that the issue should
.....
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be checked into for the best interests of all of the people
who wish to come to Wappingers. It's a beautiful place, and
why the whole Town is going down the toilet for things that
are just unnecessary, burdensome, where they promise you the
world and it can not be done, and unless -- I'm getting
mixed up, but things should be inspected, septic fields
definitely have to be placed in the right spot. I'm con-
fused again. And, I am frustrated. But, I am for the
moratorium, and I feel that that's the best way to go.
[APPLAUSE FROM THE AUDIENCE.]
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: Anybody else in that row?
No? Then going to the next row. If you raise your hand I
will recognize you. Anybody in the center row who wishes to
speak. No? Then, going to the left, anybody in the first
row? All right. Second row? Third row? Fourth? Fifth?
All right. Then, we'll go to the back, yes, sir?
MR. ANDRIE110: Ron Andrie11o, 14 Nancya11en
Drive, Wappingers Falls. I am for the moratorium to prevent
one thing, developing like in the Hamlet, and what Jeff
Hunter did in Pond View Estates. Every house he had a run
on gray and vinyl siding. The people changed four or five
houses; and some were sold already, but everybody said the
same thing, that they got stuck with a bummer. And, every-
time you read the Southern Dutchess News, it's a variance
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for this and that. And, I don't know if you can blame the
Town or the Planning Board, but reviews have to be looked at
closely. If somebody puts a deck up, and finds they can not
__ the builders should know that something is wrong, and if
there is a moratorium, it will help this and alleviate going
for variances to put up a deck. I hope it would. Thank
you.
...
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: Continuing, then in the
aisle on my left. Anybody? Come up, please.
MRS. BYRON: I'm Helen Byron, a resident of the
Town, and I've lived here for five years; and I've seen and
observed uncontrolled growth in the Town, and it's about
time something was done. I am for the moratorium. Our
builder is one who went bankrupt, but I was lucky to move
into a nice house. But, the rest are all the same siding,
with no differences in the houses, and no planning after he
went bankrupt. I am for the moratorium.
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: The next speaker may come
up.
MS. KURTZ: Park Hill Drive. I live in the Town
of Wappinger for two years, and I want to say I am for the
moratorium. People moving into Wappingers will have to pay
more money, but it's worth it if they have gotten what they
pay for. And, it's worth it because right now they gain
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nothing if they move into the Town. They may save thousands
of dollars now, but they will have to pay for it in the long
run.
-
[APPLAUSE FROM THE AUDIENCE.]
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: Continuing, then.
MS. SERBINO: Allison Serbino, Split Tree Drive,
Wappingers Falls. We are all new residents, and we were all
concerned; and I feel bad for the hardships that these
people who want to buy homes, and are being relocated; but
we have been looking around, my husband and I, at these new
homes, for about two months now, and it's only because I had
my house evaluated by a real estate -- and for the low price
they were offering kme, I went to look at the new homes and
it was twenty or forty percent more, more or less. And, I
am very happy that in the last three years your children
have not had to be relocated throughout the school area, and
I thank the Board for that. But, I feel that the builders
come in here -- the reason that Dutchess County is booming,
at this time, is that the money is sitting hre, and they,
the builders, come in here, and sell them, and take no
responsibility for the schools, for the water; and they
don't care, they come in and build and sell and "good bye
and good luck". The hardship is that they have the
attorneys to fight you with, you people who owe mortgages up
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to the gills do not have the money to fight, or to look for
them. So, I am for the moratorium. But, I think it should
be for two to five years, not six months.
[APPLAUSE FROM THE AUDIENCE.]
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: All right. Anybody else
who has not spoken, from that side? All right. On the
right side, then, anybody wishing to speak? Yes?
MR. MILLS: James Mills, 7 Brian Place. As a
Member of the present Planning Board, and Past Member of the
Town Board, I wish to add a few comments to Mr. Incoronato's
remarks, where he said he inherited a bad deal. He was on
the original Planning Board, and Planner of the Southern
Dutchess 1990, that was rezoned in 1980, so he is part and
parcel. Like everything else in the Town, eighty people in
the group that went throughl that zoning study, and we were
not alone as Republicans, as he's indicating; and it looks
like the Town Board is now out of the planning business. I
don't understand that. It says that the Town Board is going
to have responsibility. I don't know how they can do that.
I think, unfortunately, most people don't understand the
moratorium. For one thing, you people here a year and a
half, is a Democratically controlled Town. You had a
Democratic Building Inspector, Democratic Zoning
Administrator who gave out your C.O.'s. They are the ones
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"...
responsible, not the previous administration.
Thank you.
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: I would like to comment
that we inherited, when I assumed office in 1984
[AUDIENCE OBJECTED TO SUPERVISOR VERSACE
MAKING ANY COMMENTS AT THIS TIME.]
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: I'll save my comments,
then, for Tuesday evening. Yes, ma'am?
[UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE ADDRESSED THE TOWN
BOARD, BUT HER COMMENTS WERE NOT RECORDED.]
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: I think that this would be
a good time to take a ten minute break.
[8:30 P.M.]
[8:50 P.M.]
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: I call this Public Hearing
back to order. And, I ask the Town Clerk to verify that the
Board Members are present.
TOWN CLERK SNOWDEN: They are all back.
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: Starting at my left, then,
if you have comments to make, we will be using the same pro-
cedure as before. I will entertain your comments, Bernice.
MRS. MILLS: Bernice Mills, I live at 7 Brian
Place. I served on the Town Board for six years, and was
defeated by a very able person, but I would like to make a
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.....
remark, that for the six years on the Board, we have held
Public Hearings, and Mr. Versace sat on the Board. And, I
never heard of a Town Board not being able to answer a
question at a Public Hearing. I always thought that that is
what a Public Hearing was, what it's about. If you're
asked the time, you don't say "I want input". It's only a
question. But, to continue, after Mr. Incoronato's camp-
aign speech here, I think that time should be used to
explain to the people here, who really do not know what a
moratorium is all about, and I think he could have used his
talents, and explained it to you, explained exactly what a
moratorium is all about. Because what your bad builder did,
the moratorium will not change. That bad builder is still
here, and will still be here. That's up to you to wisely
judge who you are going to contract with. Unfortun- ately
we have bad people in every phase of life, whether building,
banking, garbage, or government. You are going to find them
everywhere, and it is up to you, when you spend thousands of
dollars to contract with a good guy, or woman, and hope it
will be successful, because the people that should be
watching that are your building inspectors, who this Board
picked. So they are the ones that should be saying that
that is not going to change by a moratorium.
The way this ordinance is written now, I have to be against
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....
the moratorium. It's not that I am against it, really.
But, in the concept of what I am reading here, and that no
question that you can ask is answered, I have to, at this
time, say that I am against it.
Thank you.
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: We will start to my left,
and work our way back and forth.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Can I say something from this
end? I moved from that side over to here because I thought
you were finished.
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: Yes. I saw you sitting in
the back there, and we will entertain your comments if you
have not spoken before.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: I did not speak before. Thank
....
you.
COUNCILMAN McCLUSKEY: Come on down.
MR. RUBENSTEIN: Mr. Supervisor, Town Board Mem-
bers, I am Jay Rubenstein, living in the Town of Wappingers,
2 Maurice Drive. I was a Planning Board Member until last
year. I was on the Board for five years. I heard things
said tonight making the two Boards, Zoning and Planning,
look bad. Some people remarked about the traffic on Myers
Corners Road. Yes. There is an IBM facility there. At the
time, when this land came up for developing, the Public was
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asked to come to meetings, and they had a choice, 75 to 100
homes, or IBM. Public Hearings were held, no one came out
to complain. There were people who complained, but the
ratio was for IBM. People believed by putting in homes you
have to increase your schools, utilities go up, and it's too
costly. And, with IBM, as a good neighbor, the people had a
choice. Planning had nothing to do with it. The people
made the choice.
Second of all, I heard nobody against the developement.
Yes, there are developers screwing the public. But, for
every bad one there is three hundred good ones. Look at the
Town of Wappinger. How many complaints do we really have.
We have it against a select few. I do not believe that
every developer is guilty of the fraud that's been brought
out tonight.
Three, plans were presented, questions were asked,
people got answers. The biggest problem is the people who
bought the homes, their lawyers should have defended them
from the very start, should have known what to ask for
before the closing took place.
Four, there were many times that the Planning Board went
to the Town Board for answers, and they said to us "you do
it yourself".
So, all of the fault does not lie with the Planning
,...,..
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>-
Board, or the Zoning Board, it also lies with the Town
Board.
Thank you.
>~
[APPLAUSE FROM THE AUDIENCE.]
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: Thank you. Next speaker?
MR. HIRKALA: Mike Hirkala, Fowlerhouse Road.
Good evening. I was not going to comment tonight, but I was
going to leave it up to the others, because in the past, I
have had things to say about what's happening in the Town,
and for that reason I decided I would comment. First of
all, a comment was made about the fact of the studies that
were made prior to the passing of the 1980 Zoning Ordinance
revision. I happened to be on the same Committee and I have
to point out, out of the political spectrum, the then
Chairman of the Planning Board was of the opposite party of
the Town Board majority and he stood up and said, himself,
that that is not what he recommended as the Zoning Ordinance
for the Town of Wappinger. And, the planners, who was hired
by the Town, and paid by a Federal Grant, at the time, took
their names off the zoning Ordinance, as presented to the
public, for the Public Meeting. And, that Zoning Ordinance
is the one we live with today. And, the map itself was not
a matter of discussion to the public. The map was revised
by the Town Board that then sat, without public input
'......
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-40-
whatsoever. And, the Zoning Ordinance, as written, was a
revision that was made from the one that was presented by
the Citizens' Committee, which was made up of many many
people of many many different facets, not just one group or
another; and, compromise went into it, and what was finally
presented by the then sitting Town Board, and I can not tell
you what the political make-up was, of the Town Board, but
the decision to pass that Zoning Ordinance and map, was a
political decision, in my opinion. That's what we are
living with today. That's the reason we have problems in
the Town of Wappinger today. And, nobody can tell me we
don't have problems today, because I go to the meetings, and
have been watching for many, many years. The fact of the
moratorium, I am not going to say if we should or should not
have it, there is good and there is bad, but if you are
going to have it, have it for the right reasons. The Hudson
Valley Builders Counsel has valid arguements, but I don't
think they hold water. The fact of the cost of housing I
don't think the final cost is reflection of the market, not
to any great extent, as to what the Town does or does not
do. The cost of the land, in the Town of Wappinger, and in
the Town of East Fishki11, is roughly equal, within a few
thousand dollars $150,000 for a house in East Fishki11,
and $153,000 in the Town of Wappinger -- it's one versus the
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-41-
other. Argue that out and try to get it down. But, the
fact is that the cost of building in the Town is not going
to be hurt by a moratorium. The Town does need time to sit
down and do the planning, but put the moratorium in
perspective. What you do with it is something else. If you
support the moratorium, you have to support and push for the
fact that the Town Board, and whoever is behind them, as far
as citizens are concerned, will do something with it. Take
that time and put it to progressive use, to end up with a
product we can live with. We've had moratoriums before,
political footballs; don't make it a political football.
If the Town does benefit, it is going to be because we
takethe six months and do something with it that's where the
arguement belongs. will we do something with the time given
to us?
....
[APPLAUSE FROM THE AUDIENCE.]
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: Again, if you've spoken
before, please wait until those who have not spoken have.
If you do have comments, please make them brief because we
only have about an hour left. Going by the first three
rows, who are the news media, andddd yes, Mr. Cortellino?
MR. CORTELLINO: Charles Cortellino, 11 Russ
Place. I was up before, I didn't state that I favor the
concept of the moratorium. And, like Mike said, put it to
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constructive use to see where we go. We have water and
sewer problems, and also -- I'll not use the word -- how do
you prevent problems that we have with the builders? I've
heard it earlier, how there are a few builders -- and I
would like to say that they are bad. And, in 1964, when I
moved in, in '65, when the rains came -- I heard that there
was one bad builder. There seems to be in New York a bunch
of guys, good guys, and one bad guy. Either straighten him
out or we're in trouble. For 20 years I've lived here. I
don't wish to go on record, because I -- but I defy any
builder herea to name one developer that did not go to the
Town Board complaining about roads. This is not done. How
would you like this, Mr. Lawyer, how would you like a house
with a rear door off your dining room, and no deck, no deck
is possible to be built? What do you do with the builder?
And, you don't know that you can't put a rear deck up until
you come before us, the Board, and we send it to the zoning
Board. We're limited in what we can give, by State Law.
And, we have to bar out the people [SIC] going contrary to
law because builders violating that that's a better word
than "screwing" -- but violating it and I support it, if
we can get something constructive out of it.
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: Continuing on, then, going
across, raise your hand if you wish to speak a second time.
--
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--
Yes, in the second aisle, Mrs. Yanitelli?
MRS. YANITELLI: I would like to say that I've
heard the problems in the room tonight, and having a long
history in the building and development business, and you
have the Town Board, Building Inspector, bank inspectors who
don't give the money unless it's finished. That's in the
past. Don't penalize the good developers with good
engineers, and the people with property since 1958, who have
watched the Town of Wappingers and nothing has happened
since 1958. It's still in the same position. Nothing has
changed. Every time an interested party wants to do some-
thing, we have another zoning change. And, that change is
whatever you wish to do. And, then, nothing is feasible.
And, I don't think that a Board that takes a position of the
Town Board, you are to go with the area, with the changing
times, and the 1985 ideas are things to incorporate, and not
devaluate somebody's property, or take it away, so they can
not use it, so it's going to be a Town Park. Let them use
it to be developed as it was planned to be used. And, the
industry in Wappingers will not sit here because you are not
going according to the plan of too much growth. And, I
strongly advise you, and the citizens, to get together to
absolutely go into depth about a moratorium, because you are
delaying it. It's the same problems as before. And, now to
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make every person in the Town do what you are supposed to do
you will not have the problems that you've heard here this
evening. But, don't penalize the people with good lands to
provide housing for people moving in. [SIC]
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: In the center aisle, is
there anybody else? All right. On my left? Yes, sir?
MR. SAILER: Ed Sailer, Fox Hill Road. I have
been listening to lots of comments tonight, and I don't have
an ax to grind, one way or the other, I don't think. But, it
is interesting that builders feel a disruption of their bus-
iness will hurt them, and I don't think we can deny that.
We have to live with the business cycle as it is. And, it
is difficult enough to make a living in some of the
businesses, and some tradespeople are our neighbors. On the
other hand, we have residents who feel, for a variety of
reasons, that growth should be arrested, and that is easy to
understand. I drive throughout the Town too. But, driving
in the Town, or Myers Corners Road, or whatever, where ever
you are, is not a factor of building that much in the Town,
in my opinion. [SIC] It's fine that there are jobs in the
Town, but what you have to do is go and put a moratorium on
the jobs in the Town, like IBM, for example. You are going
to have the traffic regardless of the people living in the
Town of Wappingers, or poughkeepsie, or anyplace else. The
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traffic is here, and it is because of the jobs, and growth,
that you see in the Town, and it is consistent with the
master plan, and so is the ordinance.
The arguement about bad builders is an arguement that
does not belong in the moratorium, and will not effect it.
The sewer and water are problems, but they don't -- are not
involved with a total moratorium. You can have a moratorium
and still have those things, so I am oppposed to the mora-
torium.
....
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: On my left, are there any-
more comments? If not -- going to the right, are there any
comments? There are none. Then, I will ask for a motion to
close this Public Hearing.
COUNCILMAN McCLUSKEY:
SUPERVISOR VERSACE:
I would like to speak.
Mr. McCluskey would like to
make a comment.
COUNCILMAN McCLUSKEY: First, I would like to
thank everybody for coming tonight. I was hoping I would
not have to get up here and make any comments. But, it was
obvious, when I sat down, that we were not going to have a
normal Public Hearing. I would like to caution everybody
here, Labor Day is Monday, and every other year in the Town
of Wappinger, that is the beginning of the silly season,
when elections come up. And, we have to make as much
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political hay as possible. So, whether it be good taste or
form, some people, as Mr. Incoronato did tonight, used the
Public Hearing to make a politial speech. I find that quite
regrettable, and I apologize for Mr. Incoronato to you, the
people who carne here to the Public Hearing. I am also quite
disappointed that I, as a Town Board Member, was not told
what the ground rules would be for this Public Hearing.
Because, had I known what they would be, I would have told
you to stay home and watch the boob tube. As far as I am
concerned a Public Hearing is just that. You invite the
public, pro and con, to corne to a meeting to ask questions
and to get answers about this moratorium. And, by what I
say tonight, don't assume that I am for or against it. I am
not talking about that now. But, I will say this, this
moratorium is probably one of the most serious, and most
impacting pieces of legislation that the Town Board, or any
Town Board, has ever yet considered in this Town. And, I
feel that this thing is being railroaded through. Mr.
Versace told us that we have to be out of here by 10:00. He
did not make the rules. The school told him to be out by
10:00. However, I think, had there been a lot of people
here, with questions and answers, and more time was needed,
we should have made sure that we had a building to stay in
until 2:00 a.m., if need be. The builders spoke and asked
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for time to ask questions. Mr. Versace said to contact him
and he will give the builders that time. I would like to
see the Town Board give everyone the time to ask questions.
I think that the public has that right, whether they support
the moratorium or don't support it. But, the most important
part is I want the people who don't know what the hell is
going on to ask questions, to find out. Frankly, I read the
moratorium, and I don't understand it yet. I understand
what the words on the paper mean, but when I put them toget-
her as on a piece of legislation, I am lost very quickly.
Perhaps, if I read it ten or twenty times, it may make
sense. But, I have to say to myself, why does the public
criticize the politicians? Because they don't tell the
public what is going on. And, I think that the public many
times is right, because the politicians are telling the
public what is going on, and the public has questions. If
the public has questions, damn it, answer them.
Thank you.
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[APPLAUSE FROM THE AUDIENCE.]
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: Are there any other
comments to be made by the Board Members? Yes, Mrs. Paino?
MRS. PAINO: Good evening. I'm Irene Paino,
Councilwoman from the Town of Wappinger, Ward Three. You
will have to excuse my voice, I've a cold, but bear with me.
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live been to a number of Public Hearings myself through-
out the course of the last five years. And, generally
speaking when questions are asked, that are germane to the
subject at hand, in the past, they have been entertained and
answered. And, I feel that the number of people who have
attended this meeting, tonight, are going home with their
questions unanswered. I do not feel that that is approp-
riate. I do feel that those people who have questions
should have had the opportunity to voice their questions,
and have them answered, or at least some type of answer
given. As a Town Board Member I certainly have a number of
questions with regard to the ordinance itself. Several
weeks ago the Town Board had a workshop meeting, and at that
workshop meeting Councilman Incoronato gave a twenty minute
dissertation as to why we should have a moratorium in the
Town of Wappinger. And, at the end of his presentation I
told him, in concept, I agreed. I feel that lots of things,
perhaps, have gotten out of hand, whether it be certain Town
employees not doing their jobs properly -- and if that's why
it's out of hand I was not sure. But, what I did say was
hat I would like to do before the Town Board jumps feet
first into a moratorium. And, that would be for the entire
Board to sit down together as representatives of the people
of the Town of Wappinger, regardless of political
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affiliation, and hammer out exactly what is to be accomp-
lished during the course of the six month moratorium. And,
if the Town Board calls for a moratorium, and the problems
are not addressed, and solutions are not found, then after
six months we are back where we started again. And, I've
lived in Ward Three, and Ward Three is the area of the Town
that has the fastest growing developments in the Town of
Wappinger at this time. And, at this particular workshop
meeting Supervisor Frank Versace, and Councilwoman Renata
Ballard, and Councilman Joe Incoronato agreed that we will
sit down, all five of us, as the Town Board, and discuss
what is to be on the agenda for the six months. Also, we
all agreed as to how we will go about seeking a review
process, and that's not been addressed yet. The State
requires an Environmental Impact Statement, long form, short
form, and SEQRA review process is required, but the Public
Hearing for the moratorium is called, and they say, "let's
decide that, and sit down with the attorney, and see what
the ramifications will mean if we call a moratorium" because
last summer the idea of a moratorium was brought up and the
same Town Attorney counseled us against it, and I want to
know why is it okay to call it this time, this year, and not
last year. Last summer the attorney indicated that the Town
would better spend its money because, he indicated, that the
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Town would be opening itself to possible litigation and it's
better to spend our money on assessing and zoning in the
Town, and going through administrative processes, rather
than spendihg tax dollars, and putting it into the lawyers'
pockets in litigation. And, then, the Town Board abided by
their counsel. So, as I said, I asked that we sit down and
discuss it, and see what we are going to do in the six
months. And, the Supervisor indicated that he will set up
another workshop before anything was done, so we, as rep-
resentatives of the Town, would all have input into what
course we'll take. And, if we have a moratorium, exactly
what will go into the moratorium ordinance, and I left the
meeting with a good feeling, that politics will not playa
part in the proposed moratorium. Then, a few days later I
received a phone call from a member of the media sitting in
the audience tonight, indicating that Councilman Incoronato
called him and said that the Democrats decided to call a
moratorium, and how did I feel about it. And, I said "it's
news to me. We were to have another meeting and discuss the
manner and way the moratorium would be implemented". So, I
said that I would rather not comment, at that time, because
I had no discussions on it with the other Town Board
Members. And, then I read in the papers that at the next
meeting the Town was going to vote on the concept of the
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moratorium. And, instead, when I arrived at the Town Board
meeting, this ordinance was placed in front of me, and if I
had not seen it before, I still have questions, and I wonder
how many people in the audience really have had an oppor-
tunity to read exactly what the language of the moratorium
says. If you think that the moratorium is going to stop all
building in the Town of Wappinger, I suggest that you read
this because that is not what it says.
[SIC]
The moratorium fails to act exactly, and precisely
outline what is to be accomplished during the six months.
And, I find myself in a difficult situation, here.
In con-
....
cept I agree with the moratorium, but I do feel that the
Town Board should sit down and address the problems. Yes,
there has been a Citizens Advisory Counsel that was formed
in January 1985. And, they have done some updating on the
zoning ordinance, and they've done a good job on it, but
they have been acting under the direction of Councilman
Incoronato, and I feel that if he felt that the zoning in
the Town was such an important factor, perhaps he would have
done better to direct his fellow members to attacking the
zoning ordinance first. I certainly hope that we will have
another meeting so you can ask questions, and maybe get
answers to your questions.
And, I hope, as Mr. Versace
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indicated, that we'll make the time to answer your questions
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and that the Town Board will have the opportunity to sit
down, as a Town Board, and discuss further the language of
the proposed moratorium. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: Since most of the Board
Members have spoken, I think I should have that privilege.
I had indicated this evening that I was here to hear
comments. Mr. McCluskey said that the "silly season" has
started, and I know what the "silly season" is about. I
have been there five times, and I have attended more Public
Hearings than the four Board Members have in their years on
the Town Board. A Public Hearing is just that. It is a
hearing to hear comments of the public, and for the Town to
evaluate those comments. And, I have been at enough Public
Hearings to know there is going to be fifty percent for, and
fifty percent against.
I do resent some comments that were made this evening.
Yes, my administration took over in '84, and I did inherit
some officials that were there. And, that comment that was
made -- that was because of inspections that were related to
the problems we have now. You have to remember that we have
civil service jobs in the Town and no administration can
fire a civil service employee, although we would like to
sometimes. But, I would take the blame for any official
that has been appointed under my administration since the
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latter part of '84 on.
We have talked about this as a political issue. I don't
believe it. But, if Mrs. Paino is unsure of herself, or Mr.
McCluskey does not know what is going on, then they should
spend more time in the Town Hall. Then they will find out
what is going on. If they would spend time with the resi-
dents that I've spent time with, they would know what is
going on. I've gone to the areas. I've taken members of
the Hudson Valley Builders Association to Spring Hill; and
I've gone to different areas where there are different prob-
lems. I have received phone calls, continually, in my
office, not with old problems, and not with developments
that have been here ten or fifteen years, I'm talking about
a development that's two or three months old. Those resi-
dents are not here tonight, but they are documented calls
into my office.
If we are going to support a moratorium in the Town it
does a lot. The builders have said it, if it's beneficial
they will accept it. And, the builders complained a year or
a year and a half ago in the Town, but what they don't tell
you is the process that has to be undertaken. They make it
look like it's all in the office, that that's where the
hold-up is. But, it has to go through procedures, and go to
the Planning Board, and it has to be passed through the
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Planning Board, and it does take time and there is nothing
wrong with that. Yes, we have a stricter procedure for the
submission of plot plans. And, I say it takes time. Of
course it does, if you do it right. And, if you wish to see
the submission of professional plot plans in the Town of
Wappinger rejected two or three times -- and we're supposed
to pass them? I had one yesterday, and I asked the engineer
to come down and look at it, it was rejected. And the
Zoning Board of Appeals had a special meeting on Cedar Creek
for an individual that wanted to get into that home, and
needed a variance. And, I am not talking about a develop-
ment that's ten years old, I'm talking about a development
that is still being built. And, they needed a variance, and
we gave that individual a break, and gave him the variance,
yet his plot plan is now rejected. How can you blame the
Town if the plot plan comes from the engineer and developers
during the building of it in the Town.
We, as Officials of the Town should not have to pass
that. We are paying the cost of the '60s and '70s now,
undergoing a drainage program [SIC]. And, yes, we are look-
ing at the water, sewer, septic systems. We have a Public
Hearing on the sewer improvement for $6,000,000 plus, and we
are going in the right direction. I asked for cooperation
from the Builders Association, and I've had the present
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President in my office, and given him all my time. I take
them as groups, and all I said to them, if you work with me,
fifty percent, I will work with you fifty percent. And, I
can assure you that in the lat six months it's been about
seventy/thirty. That's the motivation.
I've lived in the Town of Wappinger for a long time, and
I've been on the Town Board for ten years, and attending the
meetings for fourteen. And, I tell you, a moratorium could
be good for the Town, could be good for the community, if
everybody accepts it, and if everybody works with the build-
ers, and the Builders Association.
The Builders Association has offered help this evening.
But, how sincere are they? If they are sincere I gladly
will accept their help. If they are not, I don't want it.
What is good for the Town of Wappinger is what I am
concerned about. If the builders want to build, they are
welcome to do it in the Town, but I resent some of the Board
Members sitting here saying it's "silly season". Yes, it is
"silly season". But, I've seen the same two Board Members
never come into the Town Hall. How do they know what is
going on in the Town of Wappinger? We have to send their
mail out to them half of the time. What -- how do they know
what is bothering the individuals? The only time they show
up is when it is a positive thing, they don't want to hear
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about the problems, they just put them aside. And, this is
wrong. We were not elected for that. I've heard Mrs. Paino
state, here, tonight, that if I had workshop sessions we
would work together. I would like to believe that. And,
yet to see her work with the Town Board -- and she's told
me that she's going to work against us for anything cons-
tructive, and to see her stand here, because of the Press
Media, and Builders Association being here, and because we
have some residents, and then say "I'll work with the Town
Board" -- she's had the opportunity for that for the last
eighteen months. And, I resent the fact that she's offered
this evening, because it looks good, and it does not look
good when I have to sit here. I did not want to get up and
talk this evening. That's not what this evening is for.
We are here to hear the residents, to listen to the resi-
dents, and the builders, and the professionals and get their
input. Yes, this has turned into a political football. The
comments made about Joe Incoronato -- why not? Every press
release in the Poughkeepsie Journal -- "What plan of action
do you have?" He's tried to give you a plan of action in
his best words. It may not sound right to you, but the
meaning was there. Why not listen? Why not try to under-
stand? The builders did not want to hear it. They think
Mr. Incoronato is against the builders in the Town. He's
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not. He's been speaking to the Town Board for many years
about good quality. And, the residents at Spring Hill --
let the builders go out and straighten out the problem, but
-- they are residents of the Town since '83. Do we put them
aside, push the residents of the Town aside, or put the past
residents aside? [SIC] I don't feel that way. All I am
looking for is good growth in the community. If you can
given it to me, I will accept it. But, I can not see the
Zoning Board spinning the wheels of consent. [SIC]
The gentleman talking about violations, there. Do you
think the residents created the violations? No. The
builders did. They sold you a bag of goods. You can't put
a fence in? Why kind of living is that? Make the builder
aware. Did you do that? No. Cedar Creek has the same
problem. New Hamburg has the same problem. Don't make it
look like it's the Town's fault. It's you people, not the
builder. Better planning will not let that happen. We are
not shoe-horning everything into the Town of Wappinger. We
are not building because it looks good for you. We have an
obligation. If you people sit there and say "I think it's
the place of the Association and Frank Versace II to correct
it, or whatever; and then to set there, smiling, I resent
that.
Nobody takes me seriously. I am serious about the Town
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of Wappinger. And, I look at Bill Parsons, there, the
Southern Dutchess News' Managing Editor, and he says that I
am arrogant. He invented the word. And, he's the only one
I will take a shot at, because I know I'll never get into
his paper, positively. If you wish good building in this
Town, if you builders are sincere, and Jack Railing is
sincere about engineers, and if you want input, volunteer
and don't stand up and just spin your wheels. Say "yes".
Don't do the same thing you've been doing. I will welcome
help. I will welcome all the help we can get in the next
six months. But, I want sincere help. If it's not sincere,
I'll let you know. And, if the Board Members are not
sincere, I will let them know. The Town of Wappinger is
important to me, maybe not to others, but it's important to
me. I've lived here all my life, and intend to live here a
lot longer. Yes. It is political. And, every two years it
becomes political. It's always political. It's always
going to be political. And, the Board is.
I've been through a moratorium before, in '74, and it
was oppposed by the Democrats, it was proposed by the
Republicans, and you didn't hear political cries then. Only
when the Democrats introduce it. And, why not? The man is
the Editor of the Southern Dutchess News. And, he should
not take shots in the paper when I don't have the oppor-
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tunity to reply. He's a Member of the Planning Board, and
he's a resident, and he's got a right to say things, but he
has got to make a choice. Do it so I can respond.
I've done a good, sincere, honest job for the Town of
Wappinger as Supervisor. If you wish to call that a
political speech, fine. I've been here ten years, and I
want to see anybody watch my record of ten years of dedi-
cation that I put into this town. There's not a person in
this room that can say that they put in the time and effort
and concern that I have.
I was not going to get up here, tonight, I really was
not. But, I refuse to have Members of my Board sit here and
call this the "silly season", and say "I'll work with you"
and yet never made that effort in the last eighteen months.
At this time, I will ask for a Motion that this Public
Hearing be closed.
*COUNCILMAN INCORONATO: So move.
*COUNCILMAN McCLUSKEY: So move.
SUPERVISOR VERSACE: This Public Hearing is
,.,..
closed.
[9:30 P.M. PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED.]
*MOTIONS MADE SIMULTANEOUSLY.
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Certified to be a true and
accurate transcript.
DATED: September 3, 1985.
,LuL(L\,L
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PHILIP E. STILLERMAN, RPR
INDEX
JOSEPH INCORNATO 7 RON ANDRIELLO 31
TIM ZAMIELLO 13 HELEN BYRON 32
CHARLES CORTELLINO 14 MARY KURTZ 32
JEAN ROWE 15 ALLISON SERBINO 33
,.... DAVID RIDER 20 JAMES MILLS 34
HERBERT ELMAN 22 BERNICE MILLS 35
JEANNETTE YANITELLI 23 JAY RUBENSTEIN 37
JACK RAILING 25 MIKE HIRKALA 39
KEN STENGER 26 CHARLES CORTELLINO 41
PARTHA MUKHERJEE 28 JEANNETTE YANITELLI 43
BOB BOWE 29 ED SAILER 44
SUSAN COBBLE SCALE 30 GERARD McCLUSKEY 45
JEAN O'CONNOR 30 IRENE PAINO 47
FRANK VERSACE 52
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