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1989-09-11 ........ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 '-' 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ......... - -- --l m 1 4 89 1 , ,",' PLANNING BOARD : TOWN OF WAPPINGER COUNTY OF DUTCHESS : STATE OF NEW YORK -------------------------------------x PUBLIC HEARING FOR THE PURPOSE OF RECEIVING COMMENTS ON THE DRAFT ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT FORM RECEIVED AS TO COMPLETENESS ON JULY 24, 1989 PREPARED PURSUANT TO THE NEW YORK STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEW ACT ON THE APPLICATION OF ALPINE COMPANIES SEEKING SITE PLAN APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT A SHOPPING CENTER ON 60 PLUS OR MINUS ACRES LOCATBD ON THE EAST SIDE OF ROUTE 9 APPROXIMATELY 1,000 FEET SOUTH OF MYERS CORNERS ROAD AND BEING PARCEL '6157-02-707773 IN THE TOWN OF WAPPINGBR. --------------------------------------x September 11, 1989 Town Hall Town of Wappinger APPEARANCES: TOWN PLANNING BOARD CHAIRMAN EDWARD HAWKSLEY WILLIAM PARSONS CHRIS SIMONETTY JOHN PERILLO DONALD KELLER NOT PRESENT: FRANK PATTERSON JAMES MILLS ALSO PRESENT: HERBERT LEVENSON, Zoning Administrator and Clerk to the Planning Board JAY PAGGI, P.E. Engineer to the Town RAY ARNOLD, A.I.C.P. Town Planner Robin E. DiMichele Senior Court Reporter State of New York '-' 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 ~ 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 '-" -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 2 CHAIRMAN HAWKSLBY: The meeting will come back to order, please. We will continue with the public hearing. There are a couple ot administrative items I would like to take care ot. Some ot you have probably been to meetings here betore and you know what I'm going to say, but they need to be said. Since this is a public meeting hall there is no smoking allowed. It you must smoke you have to do so outside the building. In the event of an emergency you may exit through the doors at the rear, down any ot the major hallways directly outside the building, or through this exit directly to my right. At this point, having said that, I move to open the public hearing. Do I have a second? MR. KELLBR: I'll second. CHAIRMAN HAWKSLBY: All in favor. MR. SIMONETTY: Aye. MR. PARSONS: Aye. MR. KELLBR: Aye. MR. PERILLO: Aye. CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: Opposed? (No Response) ......... 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 w....:. 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 '-' -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 3 CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: Would the secretary please note for the record that Mr. Mills and Mr. Patterson are absent. Jay, could you please get Herb. While welre waiting for the Zoning Administrator to come in to the room I would like to address the principals involved in the hearing tonight. To my immediate left is Mr. Perillo, member of the Planning Board, myself, Ed Hawksley. To my immediate right is Mr. Parsons, to his right is Mr. Keller and to his right is Mr. Simonetty. If I may point out the other Town officials present, the Clerk of the Board, Mr. Levenson, the Consulting Planner to the Board, Mr. Ray Arnold, and the Engineer to the Town, Mr. Jay Paggi. The principals of the Alpine Corporation, or the Alpine applicants are I think spread out in the front row here. Would the Clerk to the Board please verify this pUblic hearing was properly advertised. MR. LEVENSON: It was, Mr. Chairman, in the Southern Dutchess News as prescribed by the SEQRA regulations. CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, the purpose of this '-' ....... 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 4 pUblic hearing is so -- Well, first of all, there's one legal requirement, and that is in order to satisfy the SKQRA requirements we have to have this pUblic hearing. It is primarily intended to receive input from you, the public, on the content and adequacy of the draft environmental impact statement, and that's what we'll be concentrating on this evening. At some date in the future there will be a public hearing on the site plan itself, so I would ask you direct your comments this evening to the draft environmental impact statement. Would the -- Having said that, would the Clerk to the Planning Board please verify that the draft environmental impact statement was properly distributed to the concerned agencies. HR. LEVENSON: It was properly submitted to all the concerned agencies. CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: Thank you. To give you a brief background on the application, the application was received by this Planning Board in September of 1988. The Planning Board made a determination that it was a type 1 action and that the Planning Board was the lead "-' ~ ~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- agency on Harch 13, 1989. The public hearing on the scoping document which established the content of this draft environmental impact statement was held on April 24, 1989, and this draft document was received by the Planning Board -- Could you fill me in on that date? Is that the date on here? HR. LEVENSON: Yes. CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: On July 28, 1989. At this point I would ask that Hr. Hesinger of LA Group give a brief discussion, brief presentation on the application. HR. HBSINGER: Thank you, Hr. Hawksley. Before I start I think Tyde Richards of the Alpine Company wanted to say just a couple of words. HR. RICHARDS: Hy name is Tyde Richards and I'm here with my partner Hans Weiser. Also with me is Bill Simcoe from C.T. Hale, Stu Mesinger from LA Group and Phil Grealy from John Collins. The LA Group prepared the D.E.I.S. for us with help of course from C.T. Hale who was involved with the sewer and water work, and John Collins who was involved with the highway work. I just wanted to mention a few things. We've had a lot of questions regarding what the center will look like. ~ '-' 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 6 Here's a few ideas of what we have in mind for the center to look like, and after the meeting everyone can take a look at this artist rendering we've prepared and over here we have some photographs of the center we just opened two weeks ago which is our first center, and you see a lot of similarities in this center compared to our artist rendering here. You know, we're very conscientious, the two of us are very conscientious about our work and what we do and we felt everyone might want to see for a moment what our ideas are, of what the project looks like. Without any further comment, Stu Mesinger. MR. MESINGER: Thanks, Tyde. I'm Stuart Mesinger. I'm the Director of Community Planning for the LA Group in Saratoga Springs, and we're the principal office of D.E.I.S. along with John Collins who did the traffic consulting and C.T. Male who is responsible for water and sewer engineering. Most of your faces I recognize from the scoping meeting when I was here in April, and at that time we had a lot of input from you folks as to the kinds of issues you wanted to see addressed 'Il1.o::.. '-" "" 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 7 in the D.E.I.S., and we tried to address them, and I think the primary thing that we did that you'll notice, is we refigured the entire layout of the project. If you recall, that as the plans were originally submitted and originally figured, this center was located perpendicular to Route 9 and extended along the southern property boundary, in fact, in more of a line type shape, and was much closer to all of these properties along the rear line, and we've heard a number of comments at that April meeting from the residents who abut this property that they were concerned about things like visual impact, noise, the general closeness of the facility to their properties, and so we tried to take that into account, and essentially what we did was to swing the whole thing so that it's now located in a -V- shape and is more parallel to Route 9. The other major change we made was to down size the project by about 40,000 square feet, so it's a significantly smaller project. We took -- We listened to you in a number of other ways, that if you read the D.E.I.S., I hope you had the opportunity to do that. We did some pumping tests ~ "-" '-' 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 8 and we monitored neighbors wells with the wells we put in on the property, and basically we didn't find any effect on those wells. We had done some storm water planning and we think that we can duplicate the function of this area as regards downstream drainage. The one thing that you may notice that this plan does is it gets in to this wetland area and the wetland area as was requested at the scoping meeting has been flagged in the field by D.E.C. We've had meetings with D.E.C. about it and we recognize this plan requires a permit from D.E.C. and Alpine intends to seek that permit. Without getting in to all the technical details of the project I'm very interested in your comments, as I think we were at the scoping meeting. We've tried to address them and I'm interested in what you have to say about the draft impact statement. The reason we have this hearing is it's a draft statement. It's out there for public review, and what happens is that your comments are going to be incorporated in the final impact statement that will hopefully address those comments, and again, ........ ....... '-' 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- if you haven't read the document please take the time to do so, because it really helps us to know what you think and to try and make this a better site plan. The comment period closes on September 21st. After that time we'll prepare the final impact statement incorporating whatever changes to the project. It will be filed with the Town. The Town will hopefully accept it, make findings on the project and then we'll go in to the site plan review stage which will be a very detailed review of where plantings will be, where the retaining walls go and a lot of detailed site plan specific things, and they'll also be another public hearing on the site plan. I'm going to sit down and be quiet and listen to you folks now. CHAIRMAN HAWKSLBY: Thank you very much. At this time I would like to ask the experts that generally report to this Board to give their comments at this time. Mr. Arnold, do you have any comments to make at this time? MR. ARNOLD: The basic purpose of the SBQRA '. 'Ir....:. '-' '-' 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 10 regulation is to incorporate the considerations of environmental factors into the existing plan review and decision making process of the State regional local government agencies at the earliest times. It is not the intention of SBQRA that environmental factors be the sole consideration in decision making, but that protection enhancement of the environment, human and community resources should be given appropriate weight and social and economic considerations in determining public policy, in this case approval of plans and that those factors be considered together in reaching decisions. One purpose of this D.B.I.S. is to determine how many of such perceived impacts are significant and determine whether mitigating measures are possible to eliminate or reduce the significant impact. The second purpose is to allow a suitable balance of social, economic and environmental factors to be incorporated in to the planning and decision making process of this Planning Board in considering the application. The following comments are submitted on an interim basis. A full report will be submitted --- "-' '-" 'l..t;. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 11 under separate cover prior to the close of the comment period. I'd like to mention that the new plan intrudes in to the wetlands area in the center of the site. The Board must determine whether this is an allowable option in the development of this parcel. The new plan eliminates the construction in the north -- the southeast corner of the site and replaces it with the detention pond for fire protection purposes. That's something I think we have to address. Detailed soil mapping is missing, more current information other than 1939 soil survey is available. Soil information may effect the buildings and parking area location. We should be aware there is a 16 foot difference in floor elevations between the two anchor stores. How will this difference be handled? It's a question for them, and the building will have an unbroken front of 1320 feet in an L shaped configuration. It's not the easiest type of development to have for fire fighting purposes, for fire access purposes. ~ " '-' 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 ......... 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ~ -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 12 The physical analysis submitted, I need a little bit more information inCluding what program was used and the supporting assumptions. The narrative describing the area does not describe the existing shopping centers outside the boundaries of the Town. This is somewhat misleading. There are adjacent areas which have Shopping centers and shopping retail in the immediate vicinity, but they're not mentioned in this report because they stopped at the Town boundary. D.E.I.S. references 202,600 square feet of gross leasable area all the way through and on with the plan. I'd like to know is this the total building size or are there additional sizes other than the gross leasable area? Is it all on one floor? Town parking requirements based upon total building area and require a different calculation for restaurants so we have to review the parking spaces provided. The Town adopted a revised master plan on August 8, 1988. The D.B.I.S. -- This proposal does not conform to that proposed land use and reference .'-' 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 --- 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 '-' -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 13 is made in the O.E.I.S. as to compliance with the Town plan which is not true at this time. Three other technical comments. Submitted landscaping plan does not conform to description and parameters listed in the D.E.I.S. as pertains to the intervention of species in the event of disease striking plants. We have to talk about that a little bit. There is no mention of balancing Hudson fills on the site which may reduce the need for blasting or transporting topsoil and fill off the site, and there's no mention of the disposal of grub material and tree stumps whether burning or other alternatives. That's about all we have that I have at this point. We will be reviewing the traffic aspects in a little bit more detail in the written report. CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: Thank you very much. Mr. Paggi? MR. PAGGI: I have reviewed the O.E.I.S. paying particular attention to three major topics, being sanitary sewerage collection and disposal, water source and supply, storm drains, storm water '-" ...... 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 14 management. We will have specific comments relating to each of these three items and we will be forwarding them to the Board by the 21st of September which is the close of the comment period. Just to highlight a few of the points we will be mentioning in that letter. With respect to sanitary sewerage disposal, the developer states that he has struck an agreement with the Village of Wappinger Falls for one method of disposal of the sanitary sewerage and we would like an overall location map showing the specific location of that tie-in with some type of correspondence from the Village acknowledging this agreement. The second alternative stated by the developer is the tie-in to the Town's proposed trunk line that will cross this property. We understand that the developer cannot make a commitment to that trunk line because it is not a reality at this point in time, however, we would recommend that some statement be made by the developer that if and when this trunk line becomes a reality the developer will abandon the tie-in to the Village and hook in to the Town's sewer system. ~ '-" 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 ~ 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 .'-' -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 15 With respect to the water source and supply, the developers engineer has provided us with the three pump tests on wells one, two and three, and with the monitoring results of the adjacent wells he did. Also, he has provided us with the water quality results from the table, two out of the three wells. I don't think we have the water quality from the third well. However, we would like some statements from the developer and his engineer that the final approval of the water system will be subject to the Dutchess County Health Department approval, review and approval, and that the fire prevention or fire protection system that has been laid out by the developer will meet at least the tentative approval of the Fire Advisory Board. As you know, they have quite a lengthy letter in, and I think there should be some acknowledgment back and forth that the mechanism is there for working out those differences. With respect to storm water management, the developer has stated generically that there will be no net increase in flow from the site and that what will be increased will be retained on site and - '-" ~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 16 disbursed as the peak of the storm decreases. Itd like more specific mention to the fact that there are two distinct drainage areas draining to this site, that meet on this site, and that the interconnection or the interplay between these two drainage areas must be further looked at when the two peaks and the two drainage areas meet and how they coincide with the peak from the run-off from the site. The second and more critical point is that the proposal calls for a great area of existing wetland to be filled in, and the major beneficial from my point of view, the major beneficial aspect of this wetland is in storm water retention and how they intend to mitigate that impact. They have shown a pond to be constructed in the southeast corner of the site which intercepts the stream coming from the south, from the Sucich Place general vicinity. That will provide retention volume for that stream, however, I do believe that the impact of the filling in in the northerly and westerly quadrant of the property or sector of the property, that impact must be studied a little further from the stream coming from the north. '-' '-' 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 ..... 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ....... -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 17 One other area that I'd like to mention that I did touch upon in my site plan review letter is the site grading. Ray I'm sure will address this more specifically in his review, however, one specific area of concern is the southwest corner of the site where they show a considerable cut. The impacts there would be limited, would include, but not be limited to temporary impacts such as construction type impacts, dust, noise, blasting potential, things along those lines, permanent type impact such as the construction of that retaining wall which is a significant retaining wall. I think that should be looked at with respect to safety and immediate impact upon the two neighboring properties. CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: Thank you very much, Mr. Paggi. Are there any Board members who would like to comment at this time? Mr. Parsons? MR. PARSONS: I have several things I want to address, but the first one is going to be water. The 27,000 gallons of water that is the approximate anticipated use. I have a concern with the fact that you're talking about wells not just so much for the actual water use itself, and that's a """. ~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 18 considerable amount of water for an area like that with all the homes around it, but the fire protection situation on top of it. You in your study here state that you have the hydrants, you're going to use a pond as a back-up or actually not a back-up, it's going to be a water supply for fire fighting. I know that the Hughsonville Fire Company has concerns about it and feels they would possibly need another piece of equipment because of this type of situation. My question is, why don't you spend some of this money or all this money and add a little to it and tie-in to the Town's water system? Now, I know there was a shortage of town water, but that's been corrected, or will be shortly when the Atlas is purchased. That's another excellent water source and it's going to give the Town probably double or more as far as water supply, and I just can't see a situation or a site like this being developed to this degree and turn around and live off of wells, especially for fire protection. My other concern dealt with the pipe that was going to run to handle the sewerage, and at the time we were talking about a four inch pipe which '-" '-'" ~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 19 may handle just that, and then Jay alluded to the fact that possibly something should be worked out to tie-in to the Town's proposed new sewer district, and that definitely needs to have something done because it would be senseless to dig up all that property for all that distance and disrupt all the homes and roads and everything else along the way and put a four inch pipe in, because a four inch pipe may handle that particular place, but it isn't going to handle anything else. Jay alluded to the wall, the retaining wall on the southern boundary, and I want to do more than allude because looking at the topo map I could see where that wall could be 20 or 30 feet high, and I want an answer from the people, in fact I'll ask you right now how high is that wall going to be? MR. MESINGER: I would have to look at the plans to tell you. MR. PARSONS: MR. MESINGER: that property. MR. PARSONS: I think the fact of being built so it's going to stay for the next twenty or thirty I know it's a monstrous wall. There's a significant cut on ....... ----, '-" 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 20 years, I have a concern about the safety aspect as to how you're going to keep children off the top from falling off of there and killing themselves, and that sort of wall is not what I'd say is advantageous to the community. I'd say it's a large safety factor. Skipping over in to the traffic study. I have got a couple of things on that. One is the concern when the actual study was taken, the actual dates. Do you have those? MR. GRBALY: Phil GrealYi John Collins Engineers. Actual traffic surveys were done in January, Pebruary and the beginning of May. I can get you the exact dates. MR. PARSONS: My question to that is, I want the exact dates and you can verify that because it should be looked upon as to the school situation at the time. In January and February there were holidays in the school and you automatically lose between 1500 and 2,000 trips in that general area, and it would make -- It changes the study. MR. GRBALY: We'll get you the exact dates. We'll check with the School Board about that. MR. PARSONS: You want to make sure to do a ........ ~ - '-' --- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2S -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 21 true study that we're dealing with the time when school is in full force with all the schools that connect to that road. On page 28 in dealing with the traffic study it talks about the things that are going to be needed to be done, even if this isn't built, but I have to turn around and say if it is built it's going to speed up these things and one of them is that at the intersection of Old Hopewell Road and Route 9 additional turn lanes will be required. On Route 9 and Old Hopewell Road approaches will have to be upgraded. This traffic signal will also have to be upgraded and coordinated with the driveway signal and other signals on Route 9. My question there is whose going to pay for it? Now, I have major concern with these things indeed needing to be done, but I certainly don't feel that the County or the Town, the people should be paying for upgrading an intersection because of the increased traffic brought about by a project as large as this. That gets back to the sewer again which I discussed. That was my concerns. CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: Thank you, Mr. Parsons. Anyone else? ...... ~ ! 1 '-' 1 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 22 2 MR. KBLLBR: I would like to address the 3 items that Jay brought up as far as the filling in 4 the wetlands. I'd really be interested in what the 5 displacement is on those wetlands, how much -- how 6 many cubic feet you're really going to displace by 7 filling that in, and can you take care of it elsewhere on the site? I think that really should ........ 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 be looked in to, if you know, you're making a major impact and you're going to provide a holding pond for one of the tributaries. It would seem to me that you would have to do the same thing somewhere else on the property through the water that you're displacing by filling in the wetlands. I think there ought to be a real good study made on that. CHAIRMAN HAWKSLBY: Is that it Mr. Keller? MR. KELLER: That's all I have to say. CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: Thank you. Anyone else? MR. SIMONETTY: No. My comments were the same as these two gentlemen already covered. CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: I have a few comments, and before I get in to those I'd like to offer some 23 documents in to the record. 24 25 First is a letter from Mr. Paggi dated August 8, 1989. '-" ,~!.,.: '-' ~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 23 This next is a letter from Dutchess County from the Health Department dated May 18, 1989. The next is a letter from Mr. John Collins addressed to the Planning Board dated August 1, 1989. The next is a letter from the Hughsonville Fire District dated August 14, 1989. The next is a letter from the Dutchess County Soil and Water Conversation District dated August 9, 1989, they have some rather lengthy comments here. The next is a letter from, I guess it's the New York State DOT from Peter Nedwell dated August 9, 1989. I think that's it for the documents. I have some comments that I would like to make. On page 43 of your draft E.I.S. it talks about the mitigating measures and specifically about storm water detention. I have a concern about standing water on the site. Storm water detention basins I think are good if they're designed so that they absorb the run-off, but then drain out. Now I understand you're proposing the -- '-' Il.o<- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 24 pond on this site to serve fire fighting purposes. That means standing water, and I have a concern about that, a safety concern basically. On page 44 on land use and impacts. Mitigating measures that are proposed do not address the removal of topsoil from the site. Many, many times we see that when a site is developed soil gets tracked onto adjoining roadways and they become very difficult, sometimes almost dangerous, and I think we need to address how you plan to address that factor and whether in fact you are going to be taking topsoil off the site. We don't like to see that happen. On page 47 you talk about slopes and topography. You don't discuss here at all the severe cut and fill which is being proposed on the site. I think that is a severe oversight, if I may use that word, that is a significant part of your plan and I think it needs to be addressed. Those are the things I have comments on. Are there any other comments from the Board members at this time before I open the floor? MR. SIMONBTTY: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to talk about this letter August 9th from the Dutchess ..... ."'!'!W ....... 1 2 3 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- County Soil and Water Conversation District. 25 CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY; Fine. 4 MR. SIMONETTY: I'm a little confused in 5 that they go through and talk about the different 6 types of soil that will be encountered in this 7 development, but they don't address some of the 8 measures or any of the measures that are going to ...... 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 be needed to meet the object of their narrative in their letter. I'm not sure what they're getting at or what's going to be done regarding the types of soils. They pretty much come to the conclusion that in most of the soil types that are there they recommend that this is undevelopable, period. MR. KELLER: It's up to the engineer, isn't it to come up with ways to mitigate that? That's what basically they're saying. 20 MR. SIMONETTY: I would agree, but they talk about these limited mitigations here in some of the soils and they feel very strongly that most of the 21 soils encountered here, there are no mitigating ~ \ l I 22 measures, and I don't know what the answer to that CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY; I think the applicant has i 1 1 I 23 is or what an engineers response to that might be 24 25 when they say there are no options or alternatives. '-" 1 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 26 I r I I i '-- 2 to address that and have our consultants determine 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 whether -- MR. ARNOLD: One of the questions I asked is that they do pick up the soil data and plot the soil data, better soil data from the soil rather than from the old study. No one can address what they have there. CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: Is that it, Mr. Simonetty? 11 12 MR. SIMONETTY: Yes, thank you. CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: Thank you. I will now 13 open the floor to the public. Before I do so, ~ 14 15 16 however, I'd like to explain the procedure. Again those of you who have attended public hearings before probably know pretty much the procedure any 17 way, but let me rephrase it. I will ask each 18 speaker to come forward and use the miorophone in 19 the front so that everyone can hear. Please speak 20 21 22 clearly and slowly enough for the stenographer to take notes. Please state your name and address and please direct your comments to this Board. If it 23 requires an answer from one of the experts I will 24 25 so direct. I was anticipating a much larger turn out so we had a sign in sheet which I would like to '-" .... .... 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 27 go from in aSking people to come forward. I will still do that but I will give everyone an ~ 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 opportunity to make one or two comments if you would like. I would, again, ask you restrict your comments strictly to the draft environmental impact statement. As I said earlier the public hearing will be held in the future regarding the merits of the site plan itself. So the first person on the sign up sheet was Mr. Railing. MR. RAILING: Thank you. I represent 186 Route 9. My name is Jack Railing. I'm a representative of Gray, Railing and Heinsman, Mid-Hudson Pollution Control and also of what I would assume to be 184 Route 9 which is the parcel immediately to the south of 186 Route 9. 17 Some of the comments have already been 18 19 20 21 22 addressed so I'm not going to get in to and be repetitious on those. We have no objection to the development of this Shopping center, incidentally, as immediate neighbors to the southwest. We did have the primary concern of the grading in the area 23 adjacent to our property, that which was referenced 24 25 by the Town Ingineer and also members of the Board \ I ! \ I where there is a significant cut on the southwest ..... - ! '-' 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 ....... 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ,..,. -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- portion of this particular property, and if I may use the board just to illustrate, in this area 28 here. (Indicating) This is where Triad Professional Park is, and this is the parcel now owned by a group called Bicker Realty which I am part of, so we are concerned about that, we're concerned about the safety aspects. We have a well that's immediately adjacent to the property line within about 20 or 25 feet. The protection of the existing stone wall between the properties, and some of the visual aspects that relate to a development of this type. We also were concerned, obviously, being near the area of the blasting where any blasting may occur. CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: Thank you. THE COURT: Thank you, Jack. The next person is Nick Clark. MR. CLARK: Nick Clark, Sucich Place, Wappinger Falls. I just have a couple items, many of which were covered, but a few things that perhaps weren't. There's going to be a concern perhaps for the adjacent property owners due to increase noise levels. While the D.E.I.S. shows an increase of .5 decibels which I have to agree with i 1 J ,. ....... 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 29 their conclusions that it wouldn't particularly be noticeable above the existing noise level of Route 9, the removal of trees on the site will certainly increase the noise levels for adjoining property owners on Sucich Place. I wonder if this could be addressed and if some sort of mitigating measures could be suggested, fences, increased plantings perhaps or limiting the removal of existing trees an the site. As to wells, again, I know some of the aspects were addressed. I wonder if the figures are accurately going to reflect the recharge and the well capacities in a typical year. We had an unusually wet spring and I'd like to know if that was somehow factored in, or could be if it wasn't. It's assumed also that there's going to be no additional traffic on Route 9. I don't know that that's necessarily a realistic supposition. By 1992 I'm sure we're going to have additional traffic, maybe not as a direct result of Alpine, but there will certainly be extra traffic, and I think that special consideration should be given to the entrance and exits from the plaza, if a cut through on Route 9 isn't there then it's assumed .... ~ l j ,-". 1 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- that everybody is going to make U turns at Myers Corners and Old Hopewell Road. Given human nature 30 2 3 4 I think that's unlikely. It's going to have a great impact on Losee Road and possibly Sucich 5 6 Place. Sucich Place wasn't shown at all on this of 7 the traffic studies. Although it's not a major road in there I think perhaps should be included. As far as lighting of the site, I wonder how 8 9 10 that's going to effect adjoining property owners, especially if there's not many trees on the site. 11 12 13 Can there be some sort of mitigation timers? I --- know securities a concern on the site, but perhaps 14 something can be done to address that. Thank you. 15 16 17 CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: Mr. Clark, the comment you made about wells, were you making that in the form of a question that you want answered from the 18 applicant? MR. CLARK: Yes, if that's possible. Sure. 19 20 21 22 CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: Can you address that at this time? MR. SIMCOE: My name is Bill Simcoe~ I'm with 23 24 25 C.T. Male Associates. Just to point out, we are talking about a bedrock type well and that bedrock aquifers really aren't subject to short term '-'" ~.., "-' 1 2 3 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 31 4 variations due to precipitation as wells would be, and sand and gravel aquifers, so we would expect to see less seasonal variations in a bedrock aquifer. 5 MR. CLARK: So in this particular case there is no special back and forth? 6 7 MR. SIMCOE: Right. We wouldn't anticipate 8 with a bedrock aquifer we would see a short term ~ 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 variation due to a wet spring. MR. CLARK: Thank you. CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: Thank you. Next is Robert Millner. MR. MILLNER: As stated, my name is Robert Millner; I live on Sucich Place. I heard a reference made to a back-up water supply of some type of pond that's going to be constructed on the '" \ I j 17 site. Now, last year we went through a rather dry 18 19 year, and there was even water rationing in different places. The thing I'm concerned about in 20 regard to fires, if this is going to be, if a pond 21 22 23 24 25 is going to be a back-up, what happens if we get a year or a long stretch where it's dry and there is no water to fill this pond? Is this pond going to be only from drainage or is it going to be some type of well pumped in to it to use for a ready -.. - '-" 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 ....... 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ........ -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 32 supply, or how is the pond going to be maintained at a particular level to use for a back-up for putting out fires? Has anything been thought of about that? CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: Did you have any other comments? MR. MILLNER: No, that's my CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: Are you prepared to answer that? MR. SIMCOE: The exact nature of the fire storage wasn't really laid out within the draft environmental impact statement, but it would be reviewed for the final impact statement taking in to account tire insurance, and concerns that the Fire Marshall might have. It's just envisioned that it would be either a pond or some sort of storage vessel. It could possibly be filled by the well rather than be subject to precipitation for replenishment. That wasn't addressed in the D.E.I.S. It might be the sUbject of a final impact statement. MR. MILLNER: Thank you. CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: Next person is Barbara -- I'm sorry, Gordon Robbins. ......... 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 33 MR. ROBBINS: Hi. My name is Gordon Robbins; I live on Losee Road owning the adjacent property. I have about three or four questions and most of them are addressed to the impact statement. One is, maybe I couldn't find it, but the amount of blasting and material that's going to be moved and how the adjacent properties are going to be protected against damages, and if the developer is going to post a bond or what's going to happen over there. That's one question. Another one is, and this is just something that came up, if there's a storage vessel I hope it's not going to be a stand pipe. In to the environmental impact statement there's a zoner visibility map which is figure 4-7, and in that map it appears that the map is zoner visibility map for the summertime because a large part of the area is showing blocked by vegetation, and that vegetation, of course, would not be there in the wintertime, and along that line, as an adjacent property owner I would hope that the Town Board would request the developer to plant some type of evergreen vegetation or some type of a barrier so we have a little bit of privacy in the ~ '-" ~ '-' ...... 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 34 wintertime because the trees are bear here at least six months of the year. That would also help a lot with things like noise. The traffic survey on, regarding Losee Road, and I have been living on Losee Road for the last fifteen years and I haven't been counting the cars passed my house but I have noted the traffic on Route 9 has increased, that the amount of avoidance traffic on Losee Route has also increased where people will travel from Hopewell Road to Myers Corners and Myers Corners to Hopewell to keep off of Route 9, and figure 4-4 and 4-3 which addresses the arrival distribution and departure distribution from the center show all the traffic, none of which is any additional increase on Losee Road. Unfortunately it doesn't address the avoidance distribution, the folks that due to the additional traffic on Route 9 would now be traveling on Losee Road in order to keep off Route 9, and it's -- the Town might want to address in more detail how you would handle those intersections which are a very short distance from Route 9, both at Hopewell and at Myers Corners and the Losee Road, and also if you had a north south new road in there which I '-" ~ 1 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 35 2 3 know people, even though it's not directly in this statement is talked to, and people have discussed 4 how you would bring that additional road in to 5 Route 9 over there and handle the additional 6 traffic which would be a very, very short distance. 7 I could see some serious grid lock there in many 8 situations, and those are some of the concerns I 9 had with the environmental impact statement. Thank 10 you. 11 CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: Thank you for your 12 comments. The next is Barbara Robbins. ~ 13 14 MRS. ROBBINS: I'm in agreement with my husband. 15 CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: Okay. Thank you. The 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 next is John and Ingrid Collins. MR. COLLINS: John Collins; Losee Road. Just an aside on the traffic, the study itself, at least the parts that have to do with the side roads were I I done on the Priday of Memorial Day weekend, they weren't done in January, they weren't done in the beginning of May by the dates on your chart. MR. GREALY: Phil Grealy; John Collins 25 MR. COLLINS: No relation by the way. I j i Engineers. ...... - "'" 1 2 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 36 3 MR. GREALY: What you're referring to in the study are the dates that the computers print-outs 4 5 were done. Those aren't the dates that the data is 6 based on, and at Mr. Parsons request we'll get the actual dates. Those were just the dates that 7 computers runs were printed out, the dates on top 8 of the sheet. 9 MR. COLLINS: It's very deceptive. 10 MR. GREALY: I understand, and Mr. Parsons 11 asked for the actual dates and we'll get those. 12 MR. COLLINS: Everything else I have has been 13 covered except getting back to the pond again. --- 14 15 16 17 18 It's variously been a fire, source for fire water. At other times it's called a wetland exchange, so, it's a swamp swap actually. In that sense it's creating at least a swampy area to take, to offset the one that's being covered, and then at other 19 20 times it's called a pond, and in at least one reference there is a sentence that says something, 21 22 I'm paraphrasing because I don't remember exactly, something like if it holds water, if it will hold 23 24 25 permanent waters which would maybe go along with what you were saying before that you're not really sure yet whether it actually will be permanent "....... ,f 1 i f i .~ '-' 1 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 37 2 3 4 5 6 standing water or whether it will just be a little bit more swampy than it is now, and the real question in there, its only in one picture in all of the depictions, it's not even mentioned, there's no little blue thing with birds flying and waves or 7 anything in there, its only on one of the contour 8 9 10 11 maps which is the second map back there, but could you maybe help us understand what it's going to be? What will the finished product look like? I understand that there will be a diversion of the 12 Sucich Place stream, 101-2. You're going to divert 13 that stream east. You're going to apparently dig a "-" 14 deep hole, you're not going to use berming from 15 16 17 what I understand, and you're going -- and it will be made to flood. You're going to be dependent. I saw no reference to other sources of water. The 18 19 sole source of water is these streams which do dry up. I don't understand. The question is can he 20 please describe what the finished product would 21 22 23 24 25 look like. CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: Mr. Collins, if I may interrupt. I think that at the point where we started discussing the site plan in particular, that will have to be detailed quite extensively for ) \ '-' ~ '-' 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- this Board. MR. COLLINS: To Losee Road people that's very much an environmental thing because it comes right up to the border, it comes right up to the border of several properties and it can cause the removal of a lot of trees. CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: I think what we're addressing here is the adequacy of that concept, whether or not that's acceptable or not. MR. COLLINS: That's the primary thing, but the having of it alters, and by the way, we're not really totally against the idea. Another part of the question is, how much flexibility is there in the topography to allow it to be narrower or longer, deeper, wider, something like that. To us it is an environmental thing, so that's why I thought it would be addressed here. It's not on the site, per se. CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: Does someone wish to answer that? MR. MESINGER: Just to address a couple of points, and I think your questions are good ones. To go back, there is flexibility in the size of it. It can be made to look pretty. The second one is I 38 --- ,... '-' 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 39 would anticipate the need to berm it to some degree in order to get the necessary storage. The primary function of the pond is for flood water storage, because as somebody mentioned we're displacing some of the flood water storage passed that wetlands and we need to replace it, and we'll do that through the pond. From my point of view the fire protection role of the pond is secondary. I think people have raised a number of good points tonight about that that we need to relook at. That pond shouldn't have any function at all for fire protection. We need to do that with an underground tank with volume to meet fire protection codes, safety requirements, so, what you're left with then is a pond that duplicates the wetlands, flood storage functions and hopefully is aesthetically pleasing, and then see, actually improves wetlands benefits because what you have now is a fairly, it's a class 2 wetlands which isn't real good habitat and you have an open water value which has a greater value. HR. COLLINS: Again the question at that point then gets to be the idea of permanent which is the idea of tree removal and open space with ~ ~ - ~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 40 water sometimes, at least sometimes in it, or berming, leaving the trees and letting, allowing the flooding to happen when it has to happen and then control it, and that's our area of concern, not being against the idea of having it, is it overkill or to what degree do you have to go to satisfy the D.E.C., and or can the same goals be accomplished, the same goals for avoidance of downstream flooding and all the other stuff and leaving as much of the topography as is. We hope there will be some mechanism. CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: I think you hit on the key word, and that's D.E.C. Because it is a wetland area they will have to get a permit and they will have to do whatever they propose to do there. '-'- MR. COLLINS: We're kind of looking for a way to input in to that. We don't know how that can be done. MR. MESINGBR: It would be helpful for us to know what you prefer so that when we sit down with our discussions we are able to say, well, this is what the neighbors prefer, and I'm not sure if you want us to dig it or berm it or how you want it to '-' ,-". ~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 41 look, so get together and think about it and tell us how you would like to look. MR. COLLINS: That would be very good. CHAIRMAN HAWKSLBY: Thank you, Mr. Collins. Is there anyone else who would like to comment who has not signed in? All right. MR. HIRKALA: My name is Mike Hirkala; I live on North Fowlerhouse Road, Town of Wappinger. There are two major concerns I have which I would like to see become a part of the final environmental impact statement. One is the potential for mitigating any traffic or mitigating the traffic problems with the north south road as shown in the Town Master Plan, and I would like to see how the developer will propose to utilize that road for his traffic on site and off site, and also I would like to see the developer mitigate a lot of the concerns I have heard tonight environmentally by proposing or at least speaking at length about the possibility of developing the property with it's natural terrain rather than the cut. I think the visual environment has to be considered and it's very important, and I think that would be one way to mitigate any visual impact at all with what '-" - ....... 'Ir..t- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 42 is proposed. It's clearly a clear cut job which is pretty much standard throughout the industry, and I can't help but recall the words of a former Planning Board Chairman in this Town who told a planner after he had given his credentials if you're a planner go ahead and plan. I would very much like to see, again, utilization of the site in it's natural terrain. Thank you. CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: Thank you, Mike. Anyone else wish to comment at this time? Yes, sir. MR. WADDLE: My name is Arthur Waddle, W-A-D-D-L-E. I'm the secretary of the Hughsonville Fire District, and I'd like to bring up the section 4.02.05, Municipal Revenues and Finances. The Board of Fire Commissioners have reviewed your proposal and we do feel that it is going to be an impact on the taxpayers of the Hughsonville Fire District to buy, purchase additional equipment. I have heard talk about this pond. We are definitely against a natural stream fed pond, that I believe the stream does dry up. MR. PAGGI: It is known to be an intermittent stream. MR. WADDLE: So there would be no make up w '-' 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 ~ 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ~ -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 43 water for this so-called pond. One thing we'd like to have a fairly firm figure on, we use the 19 million dollar cost index that was in the impact statement. How close is that? CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: Who are you asking that question of, sir? MR. WADDLB: Whoever wrote the figure out of 19 million dollars. MR. ARNOLD: I have no idea. HR. WADDLE: It's in the impact statement. I don't know. Somebody wrote it. MR. HESINGER: We wrote the impact statement, but I'm not sure what you're talking about. HR. ARNOLD: Is this value of the property after construction? Is that what you're talking about? HR. WADDLE: Yes. You have 19 million dollars. Is that what you figure it will be valued? HR. HESINGER: Yes. MR. WADDLE: Okay. That's it. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Waddle. CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: Anyone else at this time wish to comment? - '-' 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 44 MR. MESINGER: May I just address one point? The pond is not, or was not intended to be the primary fire protection source and I want to make that clear, and also want to make it clear that based on the comments we've heard tonight I think welve gotten some very clear direction on that. CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: Okay. Anyone else? MR. VALDATI: Yes. Robert Valdati; Town of Wappinger. I would just like to make sure that therels particular attention paid to the potential impact for the Pizzigalli proposed building on Myers Corners since it will be in the immediate environment of Losee Road, Route 9 and Myers Corners and this area. I would like to see the projected traffic study there interpolated with what you are doing and what you feel will be generated by the consumers using the facility. CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: Thank you, Robert. Anyone else wish to be heard at this time? Mr. Collins. MR. COLLINS: Just a question to you gentlemen. Do you have an opinion on the adequacy of the transportation and traffic section of the D.E.I.S.? Have you formed an opinion as to whether ........ ...... '-" 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 ~ 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ~ -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 45 that needs to be redone or done -- or not redone? Isn't part of this supposed to determine whether or not there's a need for the Town to redo parts of this study that it thinks might be inadequate, and if so, when do you come to that judgment? CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: Well, we come to that conclusion after the close of the comment period. That would be at a future meeting. If there are any members of the Board who now would like to comment on the adequacy of the traffic section they're perfectly free to do so. MR. KELLER: We really have to analyze the written comments as of 9-21 when all the comments are in, including these comments, then I think the Planning Board can make a determination of whether we feel it's adequate or not. MR. PARSONS: You're a little early. That's why I asked for the dates to make sure we get the maximum. You're just a little early for those. That's why we have public hearings. We haven't made up our minds on anything. MR. COLLINS: Okay. CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Collins. Anyone else wish to comment or make a -: ....... ~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 46 second comment at this time? I think we have enough time. Anyone? If there are no further comments, then I move to close the public hearing. MR. KELLER: Second. CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: All in favor? MR. SIMONETTY: Aye. MR. KELLER: Aye. MR. PARSONS: Aye. MR. PERILLO: Aye. CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: Opposed? (No Response) CHAIRMAN HAWKSLEY: Ladies and gentlemen, the time period for written comments about the draft E.I.S. is September 21, 1989, so if you have any written comments you'd like to make you have until that date, and address them to the Clerk of the Planning Board. The next step in this process will be to determine if a final D.E.I.S. is necessary, and that will be done at a future Planning Board meeting. Ladies and gentlemen, I would like to thank you for taking the time to come out this evening, and I know it's not always easy in our busy '-' '-" 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 .~ 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 '-" -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- schedule to take time to come out to these meetings, but I ~~ to assure you that we appreciate it and I think the applicant has even said they received some good comments this evening which they will act on. Thank you very much. (Whereupon the public hearing was concluded) 47 * * * * ...... 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 ~ 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -.... -Public Hearing/Alpine Companies- 48 C-E-R-T-I-F-I-C-A-T-I-O-N CERTIFIED TO BE A TRUE AND ACCURATE RECORD OF THE WITHIN PROCEEDINGS AS TAKEN AND TRANSCRIBED BY ME. K~~ €-.j)/'nui Robin E. DiMichele Senior Court Reporter