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1967-02-14 PHA Public Hearing was held by the Town Board, Town of Wappinger, Mill Street, Wappingers Falls, N.Y. on February 14, 1967. Meeting called to order at 8:08 P.M.. Members Present: (answering roll call) Joseph H. Fulton, Supervisor William Bulger, Justice of the Peace Vincent Francese, Justice of the Peace Others Present: Joseph Quinn, Jr., Attorney to Harold Reilly, Attorney to the Rudolph Lapar, Engineer to the David Koffsky, Attorney the Town Town Town Mr. Fulton: The prupose of this meeting district in the Town of Wappinger. has 444 + in the Town Hall, Louis Clausen, Councilman Louis Diehl, Councilman Elaine H. Snowden, Town Clerk Amelia Crosby, Supervisor's Bookkeeper Robert L'Archevesque, Confidential Secretary to Supervisor is for the formation of a garbage disposal The Town of Wappinger, for at least 4 years now been fumbling with this problem. I think we have a solution and would like to hear from the public. IN THE MATTER OF THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE TOWN OF WAPPINGER GARBAGE DISTRICT IN THE TOWN -OF WAPPINGER, DUTCHESS COUNTY, NEW YORK, PURSUANT TO ARTICLE 1 12—A 0'F THE TOWN LAW. WHEREAS, a map, plan and report have been prepared in such manner and in such detail as determined by this Town Board, by the Board of Trustees of the Southern Dutchess' Joint Garbage, Metal and Refuse Disposal System, Inc. and by Clinton Bogert Associates, competent engineers duly licensed by the State of New York, which map, plan and report have been filed in the office of the Town Clerk and are available for public inspection in said office in the Town of Wappinger,' Dutchess County, New York, during regular business hours; and - WHEREAS, such map, plan and report proposed the creationif a refuse and garbage district in the Town of Wappinger, Dutchess County, New York, the boundaries of which shall include all the land area of the Town of Wappinger outside the corporate limits of the Village of Wappingers Falls, the creation of a refuse aped garbage district in the Town of Fishkill, the creation of a refuse and garbage district in the Town of East Fishkill, and •the acquisition and operation of refuse andgarbage disposal fac— ilities toserveall of said districts and the Vi'1Fages of Wappingers Falls and Fish— kill, said respective. Towns and ,Villages all being located in the County of Dutchess, State of New York; and WHEREAS, after the creation of each of said districts pursuant -to the provisions of Article12-A of the Town Law, this Town Board, the Town Board of the Town of East Fishkill, the Town Board of the Town of Fishkill,'the Board of Trustees of the Village of Wappingers Falls, and the Board of Trustees of the Village of Fishkill propose to enter into a contract of municipal' cooperation pursuant to Article 5—G of the General Municipal Law providing, in detail, the method whereby said refuse and garbage disposal facilities to sery e Jointly the three refuse and narhana ritatrirtc a nri thn 4116-, will be acquired, constructed, improved, operated, maintained and financed; and WHEREAS, the improvement proposed is the acquisition of lands, approximately 107 acres in size, belonging to Merle Travis in the Towns of Wappinger and East Fishkill and the improvement of said parcel to render it usable as a sanitary land fill site, including necessary drainage facilities, fencing and appurtenances to serve said dis— tricts and Villages, all as more fully shown on the map, plan and report hereinabove referred to; and WHEREAS, the maximum amount proposed to be expended for said improvement is $225,000.00; and WHEREAS, the cast of acquisition and construction of the said improvement including the annual debt service on any bonds issued to finance the same and the cost of operation and maintenance thereof shall be apportioned annually among seid districts and Villages on the ratio which the full valuation of benefited real property of each such district and each such Village bears to the aggregate full valuation of benefited real property of all of said districts and Villages, such ratio to be determined in not more than five year intervals and the share of the cost to be borne by each such district and each such Village shall be annually assessed, levied and collected from the several Tots and parcels of land therein, in the manner otherwise provided by law; and WHEREAS, it is now desired to call a public hearing in connection with the establishment of said district pursuant to Section 209—b of the Town Law; NOW, THEREFORE, IT IS HEREBY ORDERED, by the Town Board of the Town of Wappinger, Dutchess County, New York, as follows: Section I. A meeting of the Town Board of the Town of Wappinger, Dutchess County, New York, shall be held at Town Hall, Mill St., Village of Wappingers Falls, Town of Wappinger, in Dutchess County, New York, in said Town, on the 14th day of February, 1967, at 8:00 o'clock P.M., Eastern Standard Time, to consider the est— ablishment of said proposed Refuse and Garbage District in said Town, and the map, plan and report filed in relation thereto, and to hear all persons interested in the subject thereof concerning the same, and for such other action on the part of such Town Board In relation thereto as may be required by law, or proper in the premises. Section 2. The Town Clerk Is hereby authorized and directed to cause a notice of this order to be published in W. & S.D. News and posted in accordance with the provisions of Section 209—b of the Town Law. Section 3. This order shall take effect immediately. The question of the adoption of the foregoing order was duly put to a vote on roll call, which resulted as follows: Joseph Fulton Voting Aye Louis Clausen Voting Aye Louis Diehl Voting Aye Wm. J..Bulger Voting, Absent Vincent S. Francese Voting Absent The order was thereupon declared duly adopted. 4416 Mr. Fulton called on Mr. Koffsky, attorney for the Southern Dutchess Joint Metal and Refuse Disposal System Incorporated. Mr. Koffsky: By order of the Town Board adopted on.the 30th day of January, Section 209d of the law requires Notice of Public Hearing to be published and posted not less than 10 nor more than 20 days prior to the hearing. This was so done. Affidavit of posting by the Town Clerk, and an affidavit of the W. & S.D. News, Just read by the Clerk, swearing to the fact that this order was pub— lished, were offered for the record. The purpose of this hearing this evening is to consider the establishment of a garbage district, including the entire Town of Wappinger but excluding Village, which will be taken care of later. All of t the people in this district will be benefited by the formation of this dis— trict, all the people to be benefited will be included in;the district. To start, I would like to call on Mr. Henry Scoralick of the Dutchess County Board of Health. Mr. Scoralick was sworn in by Mr. Quinn. Mr. Koffsky: Your name? Mr. Scoralick: Henry Scoralick. Mr. Koffsky: You have certain knowledge concerning a parcel of land off of Rob— inson Lane? Mr. Scoralick: I do. Mr. Koffsky: Could you give the basis of your knowledge and your opinion as to its usefulness? Mr. Scoralick: Every community should have a refuse disposal facility. It may not be required by law, but I personally feel it is more or less the obligation of the town to provide this facility. We are increasing our waste products every day. This particular site I have personally inspected, accompanied by your con— sulting engineer and town engineer. It certainly is ideal from an operational standpoint. As a result of this inspection the department approved the site for refuse disposal, and approved the method of operation. Mr. Koffsky: Let's assume operation begins, what does the Department of Health do after? Mr. Scoralick: First, we have a man in the department assigned to nothing but refuse disposal throughout the County. We are trying to bring them up to a more acceptable type of operation. We will make an effort to be there at the early stages of the development. We will routinely supervise and inspect and, through cooperation, will try to have an operation where there is no nuisance created. Mr, Koffsky: Sprout Creek — do you feel operation of this type will effect 4 ' -Sprout Creek? Mr. Scoralick: None whatsoever= If it would, I would not have approved. It will create no nuisance, interference, or detrimental effect. If there are any quest— ions, I have to leave but Mr. Ruf is here, and l will be back. Mr° Quinn: Would you please, for the record, state your name and address? Mr. Scoralick: Henry Scoralick, office address, 22 Market Street, Poughkeepsie, and home address, Manchester Heights, Town of LaGrange. Mr. Quinn: State your qualifications? Mr. Scoralick: Graduate engineer, having 36 years experience in public health. Licensed professional engineer. Mr. Quinn: In the course of your duties with engineering consultants to this project and Dutchess County Health Dept. and the engineer to the town, were you able to examine this site? Mr. Scoralick: Yes. Mr. Quinn: Briefly describe it for the Board? Mr. Scoralick: The area to be used is very slight varying in terrain. S'bsol|l generally speahingv is gravel. As mentioned by Mr. Koffsky, there is o brook running through the property, namely Sprout Creek, Mr. Quinn: Do you know the approximate location of the premises? Mr. Scoralick: Robinson Lane, generally the northeast section of the Town of Wappinger. Mr. Quinn: From your experience in these matters, from:your examination of the site, and from your knowledge of the proposal before this Board, are you able to state with reasonable certainty that the proposed method of garbage and refuse disposal will be a proct|oo|v efficient and sanitary method of disposal? Mr. Scoralick: Yes, and in addition to that, l could say economical. Mr. Quinn: How many years have you been engaged by the Dutchess County Health Department? Mr. Scoralick: Since its inception in 1958. Mr. Quinn: From what you have learned from your examination of the site and from what you know of the Town of Wappinger in the course of the performance of your duties, can you state with certainty whether you feel that this project, if put in operation, will be of benefit to all residents of the Town outside the Village? Mr. Scoralick: It most certainly would. You have the possibility of every householder taking care of their own refuse if it were not provided. Mrt Quinn: On your examination of the site and your knowledge of the method pro— posed are you able to state with certainty that the proposed establishment of this district will be in the public interest? Mr. Scoralick: Yes, definitely. 448 Mr. Quinn: Mr. Scoralick, are ;you aware that the project, as contemplated, pre— supposes a joint venture on the part of not only this municipality, assuming the establishment of a garbage and refuse disposal district, but that by the Town of Fishkill, Town of East Fishkill, the Village of Wappingers Falls, and the Village of Fishkill? Mr. Scoralick: I understand that they will participate in use of this facility, yes. Mr. Quinn: On the ability of your examination of the site and knowledge of the proposed method of operating, this protect, would you say that it will be benefit to not only the Town of Wappinger but those other municipalities? Mr. Scoralick: Yes. Mr. Quinn: From your background and knowledge in the course and performance of your duties with the Dutchess County Health Department, have you become aware of a need for the type of project proposed here? Mr. Scoralick: There is very much of a need, yes. Mr. Quinn: Would you comment briefly on the general situation at present? Mr. Scoralick: At the moment there are •only two municipal facilities in these five municipalities you mentioned. There are two private facilities, not being operated satisfactorily. One is in the courts at this moment. The other area is limited. If It wasn't for lack of facilities, this would be closed;by now. Mr. Quinn: Court action? Mr. Scoralick: To have it closed Mr. Quinn: As to other facility which is still in existence, can you give any estimate of the anticipated life use of that particular project? Mr. Scoralick: It has already exceeded it. I understand that the refuse has been stacked some 20 ft. in the air. Mr. Quinn: Is there any other comment that you would like to make, Mr. Scoralick, before you leave, concerning the possible benefit or detriment to the residents of the Town of Wappinger that this proposed protect will have? Mr. Scoralick: I have indicated all that is necessary. I would repeat that, as a representative of the Dutchess County Health Department, strongly, as possible, tecommend approval of the site. Mr. Koffsky: We shall carry on through Mr. Kaufman's testimony. Mr. Fulton,— To Public, you will have an opportunity shortly to question the health authorities. Mr. Quinn: I say this to the Town Board, that the essential purpose of this meet— ing is for the presentation of information to the Town Board In order to enable it to make a decision on the question before it. The question is the practicality, the public interest, the benefit of establishing such a district. I would suggest 449 4that>,.first of all, we all know Mr. Scoralick has another commitment and will return here. I think each of these witnesses should be permitted to be examined, and counsel for the district should be allowed to finish his questioning before questions from the public. Mr. Fulton: We are going to proceed with technical testimony. Mr. Scoralick will be back before this is closed. Nathaniel Rubin, attorney for 40 residents: If we are going to be examining witnesses, it seems we should be able to examine them in the same way. Mr. Fulton: You will be able to answer them in order. We want to put on all the expert testimony first. Mr. Kaufman was sworn in by Mr. Quinn. Mr. Ragals, Attorney for Black Watch Farms, was ruled out of order. Mr. Koffsky: State your qualifications. Mr. Kaufman: Consulting engineer. Mr. Koffsky: Who are you with? Mr. Kaufman: Clinton Bogert Associates. Mr. Koffsky: Are you prepared to describe the results of your studies? Mr. Kaufman: Yes. Mr. Koffsky: Briefly state studies you have made? Mr. Kaufman: We have made an investigation of the Travis—Becker site for use as a sanitary landfill serving the Towns and Villages mentioned. Mr. Koffsky: Can you state the location of the Travis property? Mr. Kaufman: The location of the site is on Sprout Creek, on the northeast corner of the Town of Wappinger. Parts to the east lie in East Fishkill and parts to the west lie in the Town of Wappinger. I will proceed with some prepared material. As indicated, we are concerned. We are here to discuss sanitary landfill to serve East Fishkill, Fishkill, Wappinger, Wappingers Falls, and the Village of Fishkill. We are living in a society that is highly urbanized. There are approximately 40,000 people. IBM, Schools, and other sources of refuse. This equals garbage which must be disposed of in a sanitary manner. There are two types of disposal — one is sanitary landfill and one is incinerator. What is the proposed site? As previously discussed, it consists of basically two tracts — Becker tract and Travis tract. Sprout Creek traverses through the tract, flowing from west to east and then north to south. 40 acres are located north of Sprout Creek and 90 usable acres are located west and south of Sprout Creek. Mr. Kaufman, referring to prepared charts at this point, indicates the site has a permit strip 200 ft. wide on both sides of the strip, you can have recreation. The topography of the site is such that it rises to an elevation of 306 in northwest corner. At the creek it is about elevation 293. The soil along Sprout Creek on both sides of Sprout Cryo, consists of clay soil through which 450 water won't percolate. Land consists of sand gravel and loam. You can keep the water level low in these — drainage. These are average cuts for garbage place— ment. West of Sprout Creek, average cut will be 4.5 ft. East of Sprout Creek average cut will be 5 ft.. Have some borings taken that will show ground water level. No garbage will be below 3 ft. of the water level. Magnitude of what you have to provide is in terms of garbage disposal. 1967 — 40,000 people plus indust— ry. By 1980, 64,500 people plus industry. By 1990, 85,000 people plus industry. How the site will operate — the original grade does slope from 306 to 293 at the creek. We do have a sloping ground surface. Initially, at elevation 306 where the operation will start — we will start and dig in a dltc h but scoop out dirt over an area about 25 x 50. At the point where we will initially start placing garbage, elevation of about 297. Garbage will be compacted by bulldozer and at the end of the day the bulldozer will take about 2 ft. of earth and place it over the garbage. Second day dig 25 ft.. This will continue along side by side and toward the river so that at all times we are bringing our trucks back over the garbage that has been placed to keep it well packed. Also this will protect it from flooding. Capital costs — purchase of land about $133,000. Initial purchase of one piece of equip— ment is $25,000. Ditching and drainage — $3,000. Miscellaneous improvement to buildings — $8,000. Fencing — $8,000. Snow fencing — $8,000. Total of $179,000. Contingency of $19,000. Essentially for the variable items we have allowed a possible 100% contingency. In addition, for administration, bond, and legal fees — $27,000. Costs — date service and operating costs. 1967 — 40,400. 1968 — 57,500. 1982 — 95,100. 1974 — two new bulldozers will be required. In addition to those costs, it also includes the operating costs for equipment, utilities, employees benefits, treasurer's salary, $900 a year. Revenues — 1967— 60,000. 1982— 103,000. This also permits items of equipment when necessary. Charge — in determining the useful life of the project, we assume that the average amount of garbage placed would be about 1500 pounds per day. This area of Dutchess County is not that much urbanized. In figuring revenues, we have used 1200 pounds per capita. Therefore, based on the 1200 pounds which is lowerthan the amount used for determining the capacity of the site we ..estimate that a charge of 504 per cu. yd. compacting trucks and 354 per cu. yd. for loose. The operation — what are the advantages? 1. The operation as planned would be self—supporting. 2. No benefit assessment or taxes. 3. Economical — if the Town were to operate on its own, the costs would be $3.45 per year. By Joint operation, the cost would be $1.44 per capita per year. The site is well—suited,water level_ can be controlled, Water can be controlled by diking. In conclusion,_.I. would like to read an article written by William McErwy in the April 1966 issue of the American City, heading —,"from landfill to streets", "how to use your completed landfill". "We have operated dandf.i.11s in residential areas and 4 516 business sections as welts as vacant areas. They have reclaimed low vacant lots for building, made new streets possible and eliminated useless ravines and water—fill holes. We have successfully operated them within 20 feet of residences by taking particular care to prevent odors, windblown paper and other hazards. As a result, the city now has a list of more than 40 locations whose owners will furnish space for landfills in return for reclaiming their land. We are replacing our old 2i—yard crawler—tractor with a Caterpillar 966—B, a rubber—tired unit that should provide even better compaction. While constructing streets on some former landfill sites, we have had occas— ion to dig into some of the tightly sealed sections. Those only a few years old emit extremely pungent odors, but little odor remains in those covered for more than ten years. Both types however, contained iron, wood, paper and other items which showed little deteriorattlon. True garbage of course reacts rather quickly, and this is why most landfill settlement occurs within a span of two or three years." (William McElwee, City Engineer, Muscatine, Iowa) The use of landfill is compatible with nearby residences. This area is relatively remote. Can be accepted by the 5 municipalities as a successful site. Mr. Koffsky: On the operation, can you be°Just a bit more specific concerning the technique and the amount of diking that will be available? Mr. Kaufman: We would start our operation in the northwest corner. The grade in there generally is about 305. We would cut that in our initial cut to about an elevation of 297. That means that could have 305 to 297 so that initially the top of the compacted garbage would be at the existing level. As we proceed and the ground dropped, the cut would be less and less. But we have 250 -to 300 ft. excess gravel. That excess material will be pushed between the open cut. There is quite a lot of -surplus material. If we developed this area, we would keep a ditch in front of this. Once this initial cut was filled across Robinson Lane, you con— tinue to keep the integrity of the dike around the open hole at all times. At all times the water level would be watched and controlled. There are now a number of pockets in the area listed on the maps as disappearing lakes. One of the things we would do would be to drain those areas. If the area is built up it would prevent water from getting into these low spots. Water would drain off into the creek where it belongs. Mr. Koffsky: In your testimony before, you said each person generated 1200 pounds per year. On the amounts to set out for the finances of this protect, they are higher than required. Why? Mr. Kaufman: We want to be sure we are -giving you a fair figure of what the cost will be. Rather have money left over than have to come back and ask for more money. Yr. Quinn to Mr. Koffsky: I assume that you will consent that the charts that Mr. Kaufman has used, that we can count them received in evidence by this Board, I would assume they would have to be removed tonight and used at other municipalit e The Clerk shall mark them as exhibits. Mr. Kaufman, based upon your professional experience and your study and examination of the site, are you prepared to slate that the proposed refuse disposal will be practical and economical? Mr. Kaufman: Yes. Mr. Quinn: Based on the municipalities and confines proposed would be included, are you prepared to state that the protect will be of benefit to the municipalities and districts and residents at_aIl? Mr. Kaufman: Yes. Mr. Vincent Kelley was called. Mr. Kelley was sworn in by Mr. Quinn. Mr. Koffsky: Your name, sir? Mr. Kelley: My name is Vincent Kelley. Mr. Koffsky: Qualifications? Mr. Kelley: Engineer, practicing civil engineering. Bachelor in civil engineer— ing, licensed engineer with New York State. Mr. Koffsky: Are you familiar with the site? Mr. Kelley: Yes, it was brought to my attention when I was Engineer to the Town. I have worked on:the report for this site prepared by Milton Chazen. Mr. Koffsky: Did you participate in the studies? Mr. Kelley: Yes, I did. I might report the results of our study. The Board employed us to appraise the 'site as t� its suitability for sanitary landfill. We found that this is a very well—suited site for sanitary landfill. Mr. Quinn: Mr. Koffsky, would you consent that a copy of the report made by, the Charen firm and Mr. Kelley be received in evidence by this firm? Mr. Koffsky: I would consent. Mr. Quinn: Is there any other documentary evidence acquired during the course of your study that you would wish to call to the attention of the Board, or that you wish to have offered as exhibit here? Mr. Kelley: No. I will say we finished our report prior to Clinton—Bogert and the findings were very similar. Protection of the ground water, protection of the fill against flood — essentially operation of ground conditions. Mr. Quinn: In your past own experience and examination of the site and studies made in preparation of the report, are you prepared to state that the proposed disposal site will be practical? Mr. Kelley: The contemplated disposal is economical. Mr. Quinn: Is the contemplated practice in general use throughout the U. S.? Mr. Kelley: Yes, it is. We made a fair amount of research and this landfill is in general use throughout the country. Mr. Koffsky: I highly recommend the district be formed and formed expeditiously. �K � ����. 41tr° Quinn: IS -there any -other documentary material that.you or Mr. Kaufman might wont-tc-offer fbr this Board as exhibits? Mr. Koffsky: Other that the map and report which have been presented, Iknow of none. Mr. Koffsky: 'Present article appearing in April /966 issure of American City. Mr. Quinn: May the record show that the reports previously filed with this Board or Joint municipalities be oznsldnredpar1 of the record here toni.ght. l think that the public and counsel should have this brief explanation that this proceeding is con- ducted by this Board pursuant to provisions of Article |28 of the Town Law and its essential purpose per se is to enable the Board to determine firstly wheOer ail the persons in the Town of Woppinger will be benefited/by m public garbage and refuse disposal district for all properties and residents outside the limits of the Village of Wappingers Falls, and secondly that the purpose of this meeting is to enable the Board to make u determination as to whether the establishment of the district is in the public interest. While l am sure that this Board wants the public to be able to pursue any reasonable line of questioning, I think that the issues should be confined to those two matters, the mutters ofgeneral bene- fit and public interest. There are two additional matters to be determined under |2A by this Board. Here in the form of documentary evidence. Proof of the notice of publication and proof of the posting. Clerk has necessary affidavits. We are on a narrow area and questioning should reflect that. Mr. Ragals: (Counsel for Black Watch Farms located in Tqwn of Wappinger and Town of -East Fishhl||) - I would like to ask Mr. Kaufman a few questions. Did you examine any other sites? Mr. Kaufman: Yes. These were sites selected by the Southern Dutchess Joint Garbage, Metal and Refuse -Disposal System, Inc.. Including this there were four. Two of them were completely unsuitable. One was p swamp land which had no po;s- Yb[|ity of development at a||. Second site similarly suffered from improper met- er[o|s° A third site would have been satisfactory but municipalities involved could not agree on it. Mr. Roga|e: Has any consideration been given to necessary improvement of Robin- son Lane for goripge trucks? Mr. Kaufman: I went down RobinsonLone and inspected it. is suitable as is. Mr. RoQo|s: Are ydu going to operate the bulldozer? Mr, Kaufman: No, Mr. Raga's: Is on engineer? Mr. Kaufman: No. Mr. Raga|a: Someone is going to be hired to operate it? Mr. Koffsky objected to the line of questioning. Mr. Rmgo|s: You are making extensions now to the way it isplanned, the way it 4 54 should be. Are you prepared for a taxpayer's suit when bacteria does get into the water? Mr. Koffsky: The towns will be. Mr. Ragals: What effective means can be made for preventing trash from falling out of garbage trucks and drawing rats? Mr. Kaufman: Sanitary landfills do not attract rats. Small fence proposed. Snow fence to catch blowing papers, etc.. Paper which shows that there are areas where it has been successfully done. Mr. Ragals: Has any extensions been given to capital cost of incinerator? Mr. Kaufman: Cost for operating incinerator for population of this size would be at least double. Mr. Ragals: You said that all people will benefit. There are people here ready to dispute this fact. Can you guarantee this will work? Mr. Kaufman: If this operation is done properly. Purpose of introducing that particular evidence was to show that these things are in operation satisfactorily. Mr. Ragals: I have heard of these being successful and also a number being unsucc- essful. Water seepage and flood control seems to be one of the main problems this will face if It is in a poorly selected area. Mr. Kaufman: I saw the picture of Robinson Lane at the bridge crossing. That point is about 3,000 ft. away. That point is 20 ft. lower than the location. Mr. Ragals: Also pictures taken the Ilth or 12th of January, 1967, after consid- erable rainfall. Mr. Kaufman: Showed that the low land next to the creek did have water, but by ditching we will keep the water out of the landfill area. Mr. Ragals: We have loamy gravel ground, right? Is there any way of keeping garbage trucks from sinking down? Mr. Kaufman: Yes. Mr. Koffsky: First of all, you stated that if this is done properly -- how diff- icult is it to operate it properly? Mr. Kaufman: Not difficult at all. Very easy to do. Under Jurisdiction of County Health Department, they can be and are, properly operated. Mr. Fulton: How much of Black Watch is in the Town of Wappinger, how much in the Town of East Fishkill? Mr. Ragals: 2/3 in East Fishkill and 1/3 in the Town of Wappinger. Mr. Fulton: Do you consider manure piles by the creek to be health safety? Mr. A. Bisom: Who is going to control the rates of the garbage collectors? Mr. Fulton: Site administrators. Mr. Koffsky: Before the Joint operation begins, there is going to be an enactment of ordinances regulating garbage collectors - by each municipality. 45' r. Bisom: I was told by my garbage man if this goes through, it will increase the rates. Mr. Fulton: Under the present situation, we don't have regulator controls, but I expect this will be taken into consideration. Mr. Qisom: I'm paying $2.50 a month and when this goes through, they tell me I'm going to pay $I.50 more. Mr. Fulton: Town Board will take into consideration under regulatory control. Mr. Quinn: There is the fact of enactment in the legislature last year of certain statutory provisions of operations of this type. Mr. Koffsky: When this issue first came up about a year ago and was before this and other Town Boards, found that the actual funding of such companies was imposs- ible. The law changed very rapidly to enable any area in this state to fund this. In the intervening time, I have been told by representatives in Albany that a num- ber of other locales have taken advantage and set up sanitary landfill in their areas. Mr. Arthur Weger, Pleasant Valley: I'm also president of the Dutchess County Federation of Fish and Game. I don't want to put your plan over, or oppose it. On.your sheet, Mr. Kaufman, you mentioned two large industries on the equal but this equal's garbage. Are these industries going to be able to use this site for industrial wastes? Mr. Kaufman: Solid wastes, not their liquid wastes. Does not mean they are going to be able to dump poisonous chemicals. Mr. Weger: Who would be competent at the site or would this be possible that there would be a competent person to identify poisonous waste? Mr. Kaufman: Under state and county health. Industry is pretty good in; this. Mr. Weger: There are human failures and it would only take one. Was it taken into consideration that Sprout Creek is a good portion of the Dutchess County Water? Was it taken into consideration that the people in New York State have had to vote and pass a $1 billion pure water act? Mr. Kaufman: Yes. Mr. Weger: Was it taken into consideration that there are State funds available? Mr. Kaufman: There are none. There is money for sewer and water studies. There • are monies available for studies of incineration and solid waste disposal. There are no monies available to my knowledge for studies of landfill disposal. No monies available for this particular project to my knowledge. Beacon got a 50% grant for their incinerator. Mr. Weger: Is there any consideration given to the refuse problem which could be created? Flies, mosquitoes, any of your flying pests? Mr. Kaufman: Actually, there should be no refuse problem that can't be controlled at the site. Flies and things like that can be controlled by any one of the Martin 4 .5b6:: sprays that are used for this purpose. Mr. Weger: Insecticides I believe you're referring to. Mr. Kaufman: When you speak of an area that is exposed, when you multiply that and consider that with all the trash cans. Mr. Robert Nichols, Robinson Lane: Several questions and presentation of the slides. I would like to ask a couple of questions of Mr. Ruf. Mr. Ruf was sworn in by Mr. Quinn. David Ruf, Sanitarian, Dutchess County Health Department. Mr. Nichols: Is there a properly operated sanitary landfill in Dutchess County today? Mr. Ruf: Yes, there is right now, with minor deficiencies at this site. Mr. Nichols: Name these deficiencies? Mr. Ruf: Major one is lack of adequate fencing to control any amount of blowing paper. Mr. Nichols: Rats? Mr. Ruf: Sanitary landfill should have no rats. There is only one sanitary land- fill in Dutchess County today. In the city and town of Poughkeepsie. Mr. Nichols: Will you say there are no rats on;that site? Mr. Ruf: To my knowledge, there are no rats on that site. Mr. Nichols: Do they have any exterminators come in? Mr. Ruf: I do not know whether they have exterminators come in. In a properly operated landfill there should be no rats and on this particular site there is soil of the type which rats will not love in. Mr. Donald Grossman, Robinson Lane: To Mr. Kaufman - were you at the site personally? Mr. Kaufman: Yes. Mr. Grossman: You are familiar with the clay? Mr. Kaufman: Yes. Mr. Grossman: How wide a clay? Mr. Kaufman: Formation along the bank. Varies, it is marsh from 2 to 300 ft. wide on the western bank. Along the east bank, the red silt loam. That varies, at least as wide as on;the eastern side as it is on the western side. Mit. Grossman: Operation will end 100 ft. from the brook? Mr. Kaufman: Because of the c lay barrier you will not get water passing through this. Mr. Grossman: Does this water lay stagnant? Mr. Kaufman: Takes more pressure than is available to push through it. You gen erally have on the downstream phase - upstream phase is clay material. The intent is to place the garbage above the water in the ground. That means you will not con- taminate ground water. In order to contaminate ground water with garbage, you have 4"` 5;7 to have the garbage set in the water. If you were to dump it in a swamp so that it is saturated, it will contaminate. As long as there are no long periods of con- tinuous soaking, you will not contaminate the ground water. Mr. Grossman: The diking term you used is misleading. Mr. Kaufman: We have roughly 300,000 cu. yds. of excess material. After we use all the material we need for covering the garbage and the dike, we still have 300,000 yds. to get rid of. Mr. Grossman: After you level the ditch, there is no bank, no dike, from that point to the brook again it is level. Mr. Kaufman: Starting at a point where we have the greatest amount of dry dirt available. Removing roughly 8 ft. of dirt. Only placing back about 2 ft. of dirt. Means we have 4 or 5 ft. of excess dirt which we will use for this dike. Mr. Grossman: You said that all surface water will be ditched off and to the brook - when spray of chemicals of this nature is used to kill pests, will also go down in ditches and through brook. Mr. Kaufman: Spray, if necessary, would be used for the garbage. Water on the surface of the ground is measured in velocity of ft. per second. Water in the ground is measured in fraction of a foot per day. Very little of it will go down through the ground. Point I am making is there is very little water that will go down. Mr. Grossman: You feel there is no way these insecticides could contaminate ti drinking water? Mr. Kaufman: That is correct. Mr. Koffsky: Town of Wappinger recreation will use Sprout Creek for recreation area. Mr. Ragals: I was told that the sites were swapped so that recreation is up- stream. Origlfiinally was where landfill is proposed to be. Mr. Koffsky: No. Mr. Sam Manners, Route 9D: I have been involved in this landfill business for about a year now. It may interest some of you to know that I was on the comm- ittee that originally publicly suggested that Robinson Lane site be used. I am your culprit. We recommended that Robinson Lane site for two reasons - 1. It was centrally located. Mr. DiPalma spoke to Manners. Mr. Manners: With respect to the 5 municipalities involved - 2. It would effect the least number of people around comparing it with the other sites proposed. A few weeks ago in York, Pennsylvania - no garbage was collected for three weeks because of a strike. Garbage was piled in front of houses 12 ft. tall. We have found that landfill is the most economical method of getting rid of garbage. Some of you are really worried about pollution of Sprout Creek. - 458: The run-off on household garbage will not pollute streams or creeks. The pathologist told me that there are two types of. bacteria. The bacteria from household garbage will not pollute water. Recess at 10:00 p.m. - reconvened at 10:20 p.m.. Peter Maroulis, on behalf of property owners on §prout Creek - I would like to in- quire first of all if Mr. Scoralick is here. Record should note the fact that the clock shows 20 minutes after 10 and Mr. Scoralick has been gone approximately 2 hours. I have been informed there are several water districts downstream from the site. - Hilltop, Brett View, and Schoonmaker downstream. If there is any possible pollution to the stream, these particular water districts and persons effected by them would be material to the fact. Mr. Kaufman, in your presentation you said that the elevation at one end is 306 ft. and the other 293. Relatively small area of the parcel in question is at 306 ft.. Most of the land is about at 300 ft.. Mr. Kaufman: That is correct. Average of 4i to 5 ft. average cut throughout the area. Mr. Maroulis: There had been percolation tests. Po you have any data as to what the water table was during 1955? during ,1961? Mr. Kaufman: No, I do not. We were.in a period of sustained drought - these past few months seemed to have indicated that this drought is coming to an .end. Mr. Maroulis: Would it be fair to say that water table is about as low as you would say it would go? Mr. Kaufman: It can go lower than that, it•.has been lower than that. Data taken last summer, 290; 292, 291, 287, 288, 289, somewhere in that range. .That is on the site in question.. Mr. Maroulis: What is the classification of Sprout Creek? Mr. Kaufman: Second class - high classification. . Mr. Maroulis: New York State classification system? Mr. Kaufman: Have record in the office. It is a first class stream.. It is not polluted now.. We have taken tests. Mr. Maroulis: .You stated that you contemplated landfill operation will remove.from one and actually form a dike. Mr. Kaufman: Most of you people are visualizing a broad area of exposed garbage. May extend to 40 ft. Not talking about tremendous area at any time. Mr. Maroulis:' How long a period will elapse before there is a dike around the perimeter? Mr, Kaufman: There will be a continuous dike at all times around the exposed. garbage. Dike will have advanced•on either side.of the creek un•tiI it does .get to the outer perimeter ofthe dike. The dike w.i11 completely surround the garbage at all times -; F Mr. Maroulis: Have there been any bacteriological tests taken of Sprout Creet? Mr. Kaufman: Yes. Creek is in good condition. Mr. Maroulis: Mr. Scoralick stated there is a man on duty in his office to inspect the disposal sites. Is there a mar. available whose sole function is to check on refuse disposal areas? Mr. Ruf: Yes. Mr. Maroulis: How many different disposal •areas? Mr. Ruf: Approximately 27 under our jurisdiction. Right now undergoing survey of each refuse disposal site so that we can make recommendations to them for more satisfactory means of disposal. Mr. Maroulis: Would it be a fair statement to say that a man from your office would not be on site al all times? Is he an engineer? Mr. Ruf: -No, he would not be present at all times. No, he is not an engineer, I'm doing it myself. Mr. Maroulis: You made it specific and emphatic that tliis dike would be good if it were properly constructed, if it were complete. I submit to you a dike would be better if it were constructed by an engineer. Clay center, gravel exterior of this particular dike would have the strength. Mr. Kaufman: That was mentioned in connection with Sprout Creek for pollution by passage of the ground water. Constructed partly of clays and partly of sand and gravel. Dirt from the gravel area would be extremely thick. Would become Tess thick we would have clay for more times materials to hold the dam back. Mr. Maroulis: .I ask you if you are familiar with this condition that existed some time during 1955 when the dam made partially of concrete collapsed? Mr. Kaufman: What date? Mr, Maroulis: August 19, 1955. Mr, Kaufman: Hurricane Diane - comes once in any 275 or once in any .300 years. We have a useful life here of 15 years at this facility at which time -it will be buttoned up tight and just as good or better than the present banks.. Mr, Quinn: It will be useful for other municipal or private uses. Mr. Maroulis: Also a photograph taken on Robinson Lane in 1955. Shows extensive flooding across Robinson Lane. Mr. Kaufman: This is during hurricane Diane. During hurricane Diane, you're not going to be collecting gar#4age. This site is I believe 20 ft. lower than the landfill site. The bridge across Robinson Lane is so small as to form a restrict- ion. Mr, Maroulis: You have been stating you are going to build a dike along the bank of the stream. What effect will that have on lands upstream or across? Mr. Kaufman: Should be at least 200 ft. wide at recreation. Will net restrict the flow. 400 Mr. Maroulis: Will there be an expense incurred in building or re -enforcing the bridge at either side? Mr. Kaufman: Temporary construction... Mr. Maroulis: Are the.costs to each town going to be equal? Mr. Kaufman: Costs going to be based on garbage collected and brought into the site. This is a utility on a self-supporting basis. The amount of garbage that a scavenger brings to the site determines the cost.. Mr. Maroulis: Actual operation and pick up and drop off will not be municipally controlled? Mr. Koffsky: Mr. Kaufman has no background or ability to testify to that. Mr. Maroulis: Would it cost a family in Fishkill more than it would cost a resident in Wappinger? Mr. Koffsky: Depends on the car•t.ing company. Mr. Maroulis: How can you state it will cost $I.44 per capita if there is no control? Mr. Kaufman: There is a natural competition here. Mr. Koffsky: So there is no misunderstanding on this figure at all - does that figure relate back to consumer via carting house? Mr. Kaufman: No. Mr. Koffsky: Does that rate .relate .back to what rate would be if taxpayer were to pay through taxes? Mr. Kaufman: Yes. Mr. Maroulis: All diking will be by this bulldozer? Mr. Kaufman: Yes. Mr. Maroulis: In your opinion, is that adequate? Mr. Kaufman: Yes, it is. Mr. Maroulis: Several other photographs shown. Mr. Rauls is here who can tell us where the sites are. Mr. R. C. Rauls; (on Roberts Mobile Park on Pye Lane). Photograph taken around the 17th of August, 1955. Route 376, Stringham's dam. Mr. Maroulis: I,have some other photographs to show taken during January, 1967 which indicate some flooding. We have a screen to set up and a projector available. Slides that show flooding during 1967. Mr. Koffsky: Record should indicate that Mr. Scoralick has returned at 10:44 p.m.. Let record show .that Mr. Robert Nichols shall show slides and ttlk about them. Slides -- 1. present Wappinger recreation area, January 12, 1967. 2, 3, 4. Pump. Mr. Kaufman: Water level as measured today was 293, garbage level will be 295. The areas shown as flooded are near fhe stream and at any rise these areas will • be flooded 2 or 3 ft. around the creek. Willing to take Mr. Nichols' measurements. Mr. Scott Warthin's article was February Q. What he is talking about interms of drought and we are talking about in terms of'h|gh water. During the winter t]rne you don't have consumptive use of plants to hod back water. Only substantial rain- fall you had subsequent to those pictures would definitely raise creek about the a bank-, but could be protected by diking. We are going to provide ditches around area to correct this flooding.. Not talking about 1955 flood - we're talking about normal rainfall. Mr. Fulton: Mr. Scora|ich is here. Mr. Nichols: You stated that you came out with this landfill committee and looked at this property, and after looking it over you were convinced as they proposed it it was a suitable site. There was no deficiencies as they propose to set, it up. No hindrances as to pollution of. the stream. Was there any proposals of p dike? Mr. Scoro|ick: Diking daily. While you're cumping you have a so called dike to protect that area. Mr. Nicho|a: l came to your department and l couid quote you as strongly recomm- ending Town of Wappinger have a dike. Mr. 3coro|ich: l thought you meant a dike parallel to the creek the whole length of the property. It wouldn't serve any purpose if they dike... Mr. Nichols: Why did you propose o dike? Mr. Scorat|ck: For daily use. Mr. Nichols: He said he went out and looked at it and he said the site was okay. Mr. Ruf never pointed out if there was a dike. They came book,ond told One l could quote the Board of Health as strongly recommending a dike. Mr. Koffsky: State of fact of today - partially provide a basis forhis opprqwo/. Mr. 3coro|ich: l wouldn't consider this as a dike. A dike would be something per- manent. Mr. Nichols: Did you think that this would control the water? Mr. Scoro|ick: With bul(dozer.running over this, there will be some compaction. Mr. Kaufman: You may lose gravel if you get a tremendous storm, but you will not lose this. Mrs. Ruth S1einhous: Wouldn't we do away with a lot of misconception if the film by the Caterpillar Company was shown to the people so that they would completely understand what the operation is? Might be able to understand this a great deal better. Mr. Koffsky: Purpose for the public hearing is to set the facts down before the Town Board so that they may vote on;1h\n. Their judgement on this matter is sub- ject to a referendum. Mr. Albert Hayton: 462 This garbage will be 3 ft. above water level. Water table has been established about 4 ft. under the ground. Mr. Kaufman: Bottom elevation of the garbage will be at about 285. Mr. Hayton: Question of Knud Clausen of the Hustis site. Good 115 years... Mr. Koffsky: This has no bearing on the subject matter of this hearing tonight. Mr. Scoralick: This is some 130 odd acres in here. If some builder decided to procure this and put in 150 houses with sewage going into ground, I don't think there would be one word of opposition here. Mr. Hayton: If this garbage is open in 2 ft. of water... Mr. Russell Wescer: question for Mr. Kaufman- you mentioned at termination of the protect the dike would be buttoned up tight. It would be no weaker than concrete. What is your professional plan for buttoning up tight along the creek itself2 Mr. Kaufman: Along creek to be sure it was tight, you would have protection of a rock fill. Mr. Wescer: I would object to it if it does not have a rock fill. Mr. Kaufman: Rip -rap on the dike, we should have a fairly stable material. Mr. Wescer: 1700 linear ft. on one side and 1700 on the other side. The expense of placing stone rip -rap to prevent any silting of this area would be beyond the cost allowable. Mr. Kaufman: There is a contingency reserve on all of these things. There is money in this thing for all of these things. Problems would be eventually solved by improvement of the creek. Mr. Francese: Build up of funds. Mr. Ragals: How many times were you down to the site? Mr. Scoralick: Three. Mr. Ragals: How long ago? Mr. Scoralick: roughly two months. Mr. Ragals: Did you make any tests? Mr. Scoralick: No tests other than ground water and engineer did that. Mr. Nichols: How much the water table is going to fluctuate? Mr. Scoralick: Right now I think it's pretty close to as high as it is going to be. Mr. Nichols: I notice you said one thing. This is a professional opinion that this is as high as it is going to go. Called Dr. Warthin today. You said last night that water in the dugout area was mainly runoff and I told him. The water in the dugout area was 293. I think level running, this we got 2/100 difference so basically you could say it is the same. He said that the water in that area was surface water and not the water table. You said this was water that had run in. Icalled Dr. Warthin and asked him and he said if that water is still there in 3 or 4 days that is the water table. On those ponds up near Robinson Lane. We got about a foot difference. We got about 294, almost 294#. You have stated you are going to dump the garbage at 7 461 295. You are within ft. of the water table at that level. Mr. Scoralick says he does not know how much the water table fluctuates. There are wells near this area:. If water table ;fluctuates, garbage leaching would pollute water. I can't state that the water is not going to come up into this garbage. I would like to see the county water conservation committee come in on this. Have they been asked? Mr. Kaufman: One of the things that creates this high water table in this area is that you have three intermittent lakes. Those lakes will be drained out. Plan to lower the water table and keep it low. Mr. Nichols: You're going to lower the water table? Mr. Kaufman: Elevation at 292 or 293. Mr. Nichols: Are you going to make a dike? Mr. Kaufman: Going to make a ditch. Mr. Nichols: Water level of creek 293.6. It is presently about 11 ft. above what you intend to drain. I would like to request - has the County Water Con- servation been asked? Mr. Fulton: No. Mr. Nichols: I would like to make a request that the County Water Committee be asked to make an investigation of this for pollution. He Just stated we are within 1 ft. or 1 ft. of the water table being in the garbage now. Asking that you post- pone your vote until we have time to take look at this. The drought is still in effect as of this article dated February 9, Dutchess Suburban Newspaper. I think I have raised question as to where water table is. Within 1 ft., I ft. of the garbage right now. ? - I believe that Dr. Warthin more or less indicated that the 28 inches of snow we received in December melted in January and he also has indicated in my article that Dr. Warthin indicated there has been a little change in weather. Mr. Louis Eck: You remember the Kapfenstein property of which this Town missed out. Mr. Warthin said it would be dry and it is wet right now. People come down here with counsel and not engineers so that they can talk shop with these folks. Asked residents of Robinson Lane to Join us. Mr. Nichols: I came down. Mr. Grossman: Everything's -been in argument tonight - I cannot see why first of all the Town is expecting to make a profit from this. Carting companies certain- ly stand to make money. I want to know why you can bring in a business into a residentially zoned area. Mr. Fulton: A municipality has the right, under law, to act in behalf of all the people in the Town and are not effected by zoning restrictions. Zoning laws and so forth do not apply to a municipality. Mr. Grossman: At that time you admitted that if a dump were to go in this area 4 64 youiwould personally see to it that the, assessed values of all that property would go down. Mr, Fulton:_ If the market shows that this went down,, it would go down. Mr. Ragals: There have been certain reasonable doubts that have been raised tonight and I don't think the Board can make a decision tonight. Assert your concience and see if you can make an independent decision. Mr. Fulton: We have heard testimony from Mr. Kaufman. We have had testimony from Board of Health, from Mr. Kelley. Pretty good expert testimony. It appears Mr. Scoralick is in agreement. Mr. Ragals: Do I have a right to move that this be tabled? Mr. Fulton: No. People have recourse of a permissive referendum. 30 days after publication. Mr. Ragals: Move that no vote be taken. Mr. Fulton: There is no provision for a motion to lei:.made from the floor. Mr. Dominic Napoleon: Mayor Furnari was unable to attend. He asked me to con- vey this letter: February 12, 1967 Supervisor Joseph Fulton Town of Wappinger Wappingers Falls, N.Y. Dear Joe: In reference to the Joint Landfill Operation which our Village Board of Trustees has Joined and supported for almost two years, I would like to issue the following statement: The Village Board of Trustees voted to participate in the Joint Landfill Operation sometime ago. During this time, through the efforts of Trustee James VanVoorhis, who is Chairman of our Sewer and Sanitation Committee and well acquainted with our refuse problem, much time and effort has been expended in working out what has developed as the most feasible plan to date. Various problems, including the "big" one - a location or site for the operation, were encountered. With the number of places and possibilities rapidly shrinking because of expanding growth of population and housing developments, it is virtually impossible to find an acceptable and practical site. The representatives of the Joint Plan together with the Engineering Firm have spent considerable time and effort in the consideration of sites which would meet the necessary specifications and re- quirements while still overcoming the resistance and objections of adjoining property owners and residents in that area. This site was finally selected and approved by the County Health Department. What- ever disadvantages may crop up, these can readily be overcome by the many advantages. Among the most important one is the landfill operation itself. With the anti -air pollution program sponsored by both federal and state agencies and the cost of the incinerator operation so high, it is almost necessary that the landfill operation be adopted and carried through. It is interesting to note, at this point, that with all the information available to engineers and municipalities, this method is still the one advocated for sections such as ours. With the dwindling possibilities of available sites and the ever-increasing need to provide a definite place for the future needs for our Town and Village, it is extreme- ly necessary that we consider favorable action and support for this Joint Landfl11 Operation on the site as recommended by our representatives. If this site is lost, where, may I ask, would we seek another? Peter C. Furnari, Mayor 465. M'r4 4lchois: Obviously Mayor Furnari is not here. He stated in his last statement if this is not taken, where can we get one. Mr. Joseph Incoronato: A lot of opposition has been shown. It is a- good site be— cause — 1. Centrally located. 2. Relatively sparsely populated area. 3; Lends itself to state and federal operation. Public Hearing closed at 11:55 P.M.. Signed: 700..Luz Elaine H. Snowden, Town Clerk 1