1984-02-14'ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
FEBRUARY 14TH, 1984 - 7:00 P.M.
AGENDA
TOWN HALL
MILL STREET
WAPP. FALLS, NY
UNFINISHED BUSINESS:
it „/ 1. Appeal # 714, at the request of Denis and Anne Mc Mahon,
seeking a Special Use Permit pursuant to Article IV, Section 421,
paragraph 4 of the Town of Wappinger Zoning Ordinance, to permit
them to have a place of worship on their property located on
47 Widmer Road, being parcel # 6158-02-810590, in the Town of
Wappinger.
2. Appeal # 711, at the request of W.D. MacGeorge (MacGeorge
Automotive), seeking a Special Use Permit pursuant to Article IV,
Section 422, paragraph NB 11 6 of the Town of Wappinger Zoning
Ordinance, to permit him to operate an automotive repair business
on property located on the corner of Park Hill Drive and All Angels
Hill Road, being parcels # 6357-03-190015 and 185004, in the Town of
Wappinger.
II PUBLIC HEARINGS:
1. Appeal # 715, at the request of the 7 -Eleven Food Stores,
seeking an amended Special Use Permit pursuant to Article IV,
Section 422, #B Zone # 7 of the Town of Wappinger Zoning Ordinance,
to permit them to have a 7 -Eleven Food Store and Vasoline sales/on
property located on the corner of Hopewell Road and Route 9, b ing
parcel # 6157-02-614569, in the Town of Wappinger.
D C o J�io
(//`/"►/� 2. Appeal # 724, at the request of Vince Cappelletti, seeking
a Special Use Permit pursuant to Section 422 Zone # 6 of the Town
of Wappinger Zoning Ordinance, to permit him to have a motor vehicle
sales and rental on property located on the corner of Route 376 and
Maloney Road, being parcel # 6259-02-550835, in the Town of Wappinger.
-�- /'q- 4.L j-�
3. Appeal # 725, at the request of R.B. Knouse Enterprises,
seeking an amended Special Use Permit pursuant to Article 'IV, Section
422, NB Zone # 6 of the Town of Wappinger Zoning Ordin�nc,, oto permit
them to construct an on--�adred to their
existing building to relocate the spray booth on property located
on the corner of Route 9 and Smithtown Road, being parcel # 6157-04-
730008, in the Town of Wappinger. g -A
4. Appeal # 726, at the request of Jeff Hunt Developers, seeking
a variance of Article IV, Section 421, R-20 Standards, Sidevard Lot
Line Ree7uirement of the Town of Wappinger Zoning Ordinance, to permit
an attached 10' by 12' deck to be located within fourteen feet of the
sideyard lot line where twenty feet is required, on property located on
the corner of Mina Drive and Nancyaleen Drive, Lot # 9 of the Pondview
Subdivision, being parcel # 6157-02-989753, in the Town of Wappinger.
C LO
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PAGE TWO
a
II PUBLIC HEARINGS:
5. Appeal # 727, at the request of Louis M. Werbalowsky,
seeking a determination pursuant to Article IV, Sections 404.32 and
404.33 of the Town of Wappinger Zoning Ordinance, as to whether or
not a proposed use is less non -conforming or similar to a previous
use with regard to an existing structure located on Old Route 9,
in the HB-lA zone, being parcel # 6157-02-552940, in the Town of
Wappinger.
III NEW BUSINESS:
1. Appeal # 728, at the request of Mr. and Mrs. Edwin Niemcyk,
seeking a Special Use Permit pursuant to Article IV, Section 422 of
the Town of Wappinger Zoning Ordinance, to establish an auto repair
business, plus an existing bar, and a principle residence and other
appropriate uses on the n/f Raneri property located on Route 9D,
being parcel # 6056-02-783920, in the Town of Wappinger.
> 1XI
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ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
TOWN OF WAPPINGER
TOWN HALL
WAPPINGERS FALLS. NEW YORK 12590
TEL. 297-6257
Memo To: Zoning Board of Appeals Members
From: Betty -Ann Russ, Secretary
Date: February 1st, 1984
Subject: Appeal # 714 - Denis & Anne Mc Mahon
Please note that there will be a meeting at 6:30 p.m.
on Tuesday, February 14th, 1984 at the Town Hall to review this
case with Jon Adams prior to the start of the regularly
scheduled meeting and the rendering of a decision
on this case.
Your attendance at this early meeting is requested
and urged.
Thank you for your cooperation.
br
cc: Jon Holden Adams, Attorney at Law
Pamela M. Farnsworth, Zoning Administrator
Hans R. Gunderud, Building Inspector
M
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS MINUTES FEBRUARY 14TH, 1984
Meeting called to order at 7:00 P.M. by Chairman, Mr. Landolfi.
Role call taken by acting secretary.
Mr. Landolfi - here Mrs. Waddle - here
Mr. Caballero - here Mr. Cortellino - here
Mr. Urciouli - here
Others present: Hans Gunderud, Building Inspector
Pamela Farnsworth, Zoning Administrator
Jon Adams, Attorney
Gladys Ruit
Lorraine Crosby, Acting Secretary
Mr. Landolfi asked the secretary if the abutting property owners
had been notified.
The secretary replied, "according to the records in the assessor's
office."
Mr. Landolfi read the first appeal:
"Appeal # 714 at the request of Denis and Anne McMahon, seeking
a Special Use Permit pursuant to Article IV, Section 421, paragraph
4 of the Town of Wappinger Zoning Ordinance, to permit them to have
a place of worship on their property located on 47 Widmer Road,
being parcel #6158-02-810590, in the Town of Wappinger." He went on
to explain that the public hearing had already been held for this
appeal and a decision would be rendered tonight.
Mrs. Waddle made a motion to deny the permit, (see attached statement).
Motion was seconded by Mr. Urciouli.
Vote:
Mr. Landolfi - aye
Mr. Caballero - aye
Mr. Urciouli - aye
The motion was carried.
Mrs. Waddle - aye
Mr. Cortellino - aye
11
In the Matter of the Application of
DFNIS and ANNE McMAHON
w.. Applicants, owners of a parcel of property of approximately
seventeen acres of land in a R-20 zoning district, seek a special
use permit to permit use of the premises as a "private chapel," the
same to be housed in a barn presently existing on the premises, the
interior, of which apparently has been renovated for such use without
the obtaining of -the necessary building permit and certificate of
occupancy.
At .i public hearing conducr.c'd on t.hc� 10th clay of J;cnuary, 1984,
various individuals spoke on hehalf of the application. The
.,ppl icants first became ° ntervsred in ('.vvi_- l�)ping a center for
reli�ious puproses on r_heir property when Denis McMahon's rersonal
physician recommended that he unde,rt.a4-e sc)me activity with the church
as he was unable to continue full time (.,mployment. In approximately
1978 or 1979, religious activities were commenced on the property on
an intermittant basis, the first being those attributable to marriage
ceremonies, etc. The religious activities were conducted by members
of the Order of the Society of St. Pius X who operate the church on a
missionary basis and occupy the premises on a transient hasis.
Masses are conducted by members of the Ordur of the Society of St.
Pius X. In 1981, a Delaware corporation was formed in the name of
Maria Regina Chapel to provide a formal corporate stricture with the
religious organization utilizing the McMahon premises. The religious
activities evolved to the level where weekly Masses were conducted on
Sunday with approximately 35 to 40 attundevs. The ch.:wel has a
seating capacity of 40 to 60 seats and the average number of cars
140W
utilizing the premises is in the range of 10 to 15 cars. The McMahon
residence is used to support the religious activities of the chapel,
including the use of it for transient housing accomodations for
visting members of the Order, for clerical activities, for storage of
religious items, for choir practice, as well as for meetings and
conferences associated with the activities of the chapel.
Applicant. Denis McMahon holds no corporate office within the
corporation or other title, although he does provide certain
supporting services as the sacrist assistant, including those
associated with maintaining the premises for the religious activities
which take place. The applicants apparently live in the, second floor
of the residence, although Chey use the, k i tchvn facilities ern the
first floor and have access to the balance of the first floor during
the weak unless it is being used for church purposes. No evidence
I%W was presented of anv lease arrangement hetwe•c,n the relip,ions
corporation and the applicants or other formalized arrangement
between the applicant, the chapel activities taking place there by
invitation rather than by formal arrangement.
Under the zoning regulations of: the Town of Wappinger, places of
worship, including parish houses, are a permitted principal use
within an R-20 zone subject to special permit approval. Under the
provisions of 5432 governing the issuance of special permit uses, the
Zoning Board of Appeals may authorize the issuance of a permit if it
finds that the applicant has satisfied the following conditions and
standards:
(1) The location, size of use, nature and intensitv of the use,
the context of the size of the site and location of the site are such
that the proposed use would be in harmony with the appropriate and
orderly development of the district.
'r.• (2) The location, nature and heighth of the buildings and
accessories are compatible with the appropriate development and use
of the adjacent lands and buildings.
(3) There will be no objectionable noise, fumes, vibrations,
illuminations or other characteristics associated with the operation
which would be objectionable to neighboring property owners.
(!i) Parking ireas will he of r,dequare vire, propt-rly locrlted
and suitably screened from adjoining residential uses and :-in entrance
,inti exit ,hal l he Mid gut to acheivO maximum sittk,ty.
Under the provisions governing submission of 'ippI_ic;.itions .`dor
spcciiti use permitS, a Site development E)I.in MUSS- Igo, r;uhinitted having
that information described by 5450.2 and the necessary fee paid. The
1 ar t car requirement has not. heen observed and while :i sketch
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containing some of the information prescribed by 5450.2 has been
submitted, such has not been submitted in the form prescribed by that
section or containing the information required therein.
Note is made that under the provisions of the New York State
Uniform Fire Prevention and Building Code Act, an area of public
assembly is defined as any building or portion thereof used for
gathering together of 50 or more persons for various activities
including religious activities or similar purposes, a standard
applicable to the chapel structure in question given r_estimony that
r
its seating capacity is in the range of 40 to 60 persons.
Under the provisions of the zoning ordinance (A the 'Town of
Wappinger, only one permitted principal use is permitted on any lot.
0
,4.
From the evidence adduced at the public hearing, it is apparent that
the premises in question have always been thu residence of Denis and
`.• Anne McMahon and continues to serve as such residence. It is further
evident that the religious activity proposed for the site has been an
on-going activity associated with the site since 1978 or 1979
notwithstanding the provisions of the zoning ordinance which preclude
a second principal use of the site. The present application for the
proposed use is made not by a religious organization but by the
property owners, who have not adducf�d any evidence of a lease
arranpement or agreement with the R( -ging Maria Chapel wherein they
have -abandoned use, of t -he site as their principal. residence.
Moreover, it was conceded at the hearing that the applicants :ire not
employees of the Regina Maria Chapel nor o1 ficers thereof and that
while Mr. McMahon performs certain incidental services to support the
activities of the chapel, these appear to he of a voluntary character
rather than one arising out of a formal relationship. Moreover, the
religious use is one generally limited to Sundays and sporatic
meetings during the week, and the religious activities are conducted
on a missionar-i basis rather than by the presence of s resident
Priest. By contrast, the premises continue to be utilized by the
McMahon's as their principal residence throu5�hout the week. Under
such circumstances, it cannot be found that the applicants have aban-
doned their prior use of the premises as their principal residence,
and satisfactory proof has not been adduced that the residential
character of the property has become subordinated and i_ncideiltal to
the activities of the church, particularly in view of the limited
scope of activities undertaken by the church at that location.
Cm
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Moreover, under the provisions of Section 501 of the zoning
ordinance of the Town of Wappinger, no agency may approve any permit
for any use of land which would not be in full compliance with the
provisions of the ordinance. It was conceded at the public hearing
that the barn structure on the premises has been converted into a
chapel and has been used for a place of public assembly on a weekly
basis with attendance ranging in the area of 30 to 40 persons. It
was also conceded at the public hearing that no valid certificate
of occupancy has been issued for use of the premises as a place of
assembly.
The board also finds that the chapel as used is not a private
chapel. Testimony was presented that any person who wished to attend
services may do so. A private chapel would be one generally used
only by the applicant and members of his family.
Under such circumstances, the Zoning Board of Appeals is con-
strained by such provisions of the zoning ordinance from issuing
the necessary special use permit until such time as (1) it can be
demonstrated by satisfactory evidence that only one principal use
is being conducted on the premises and (2) a lawful certificate of
occupancy has been obtained for the barn structure as an area or
place of public assembly.
This denial would not preclude subdivision of the property to
establish a public chapel, subject to the standards set forth in
the zoning ordinance.
. Page
February 13th, 1984
Mr. Landolfi read the next appeal:
"Appeal # 711, at the request of W. D. MacGeorge (MacGeorge
Automotive), seeking a speciCL1 Use Permit pursuant to Article IV,
Section 422, paragraph NB #E of the Town of Wappinger Zoning ordinance,
to permit him to operate an automotive repair business on property
located on the corner of Park Hill Drive and All Angels Hill Road,
being parcels #6357-03-190015 and 185004, in the Town of Wappinger."
Mr. Alfred Cappelli Jr., Architect, of Fishkill represented the
applicant.
There was a discussion among board members and Mr. Cappelli, with
sporadic input from the audience. (Unidentified residents of nark
[fill Drive) The subjects of the discussion ,%ere mostly the plans inti
site in eneral. Mr. Cannelli showed the board plans and a .sketch
of what the buii.Liinu will Look Like, and answered any '4uestions Lrom
the board, mostiy From Mrs. Waddle.
Mrs. ;waddle stated that the automotlV(-- repair business was a permitted
use in rhe N'13 zone.
,"kudience concerns consi�,te'd Oma:
ark: ::111 :Jri'r' .)�� �n ,�Fjtra,•ricl'!" '=0 Vie.` -.r -r� ,'f'_ 'et71`_ �i_'.`_. ,
iur'cn,
anc. asbestos in the ;gal.^.t.
motion. was made .;y `•1r. Caballero, to den'•• the .peclai ?se erit,
fir. `_17,e ` `"tunas ti;at It `Noll i.: `l to la to Artici'.' : , ']ectlon �?32, :)ara-
araTJh.� _and .,,e location anal size of the use, �!" ndt;:re anC In
tensit',' of the operations involved in, or conduCteu in connection
with it, the size of the site in relation to it, and the location
with respect to streets (jiving access to it, are such that it
will be in harmony with the appropriate and orcer'_`I development
or the district in which it is located." and "Operations in con-
nection with a scecia.i use will not be more objectionanie to near-tv
properties by reason of noise, fumes, vibration, illiminatlon, or
r r - ri st than woula be the operations of an,,
other �:..a� acre_ �� �_cs , _
use not feuuirinc a special permit."
The motion was seconded by Mr. Urciouli.
Vote:
Mr. Landolfi - ave Mrs. Waddle - ave
Mr. Caballero - ave Mr. Cortellino - aye-
Mr.
yeMr. Urciouli - aye
The motion was carried.
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Page 3a
February 14, 1984
Allen Zahn asked the board for the opportunity to discuss a possible
sign variance for the Quality Inn Motel.
Mr. Zahn asked for the board's input as to the possibility of a
variance on the size of the sign. The board suggested Mr. Zahn
get a sign that fits within the requirements set by the Town
Zoning Ordinance, i.e..one that is 25 square feet rather than 36
square feet as he requested.
Mr. Zahn then asked the board for its input on the location of the
sign.
Mr. Landolfi requested that a letter be sent to the County, requesting
thier opinion on the matter and suggested that Mr. Zahn fill out
an application for his variance request. Mr. Railing said an
application had been filled out. The secretary stated the fee had
not been paid. The fee was paid at the meeting so the maps could
be sent out.
Mr. Landolfi then recessed the meeting for ten minutes to give the
smokers a chance to go outside and have a cigarette.
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Page 3'b
February 14, 1984
Mr. Landolfi read the next appeal:
"Appeal # 715, at the request of the 7 -Eleven Food Stores,
seeking an amended Special Use Permit pursuant to Article IV,
Section 422, paragraph NB Zone #6 of the Town of Wappinger Zoning
Ordinance, to permit them to have a 7 -Eleven Food Store and gas-
oline sales on property located on the corner of Hopewell Road and
Route 9, being parcel #6157-02-614569, in the Town of Wappinger."
There was some confusion as to whether or not this was a public hear-
ing or not. Mrs. Waddle said the hearing had already been held
and only a decision needed to be rendered. The secretary stated
that the public hearing was advertised as tonight. Mrs. Waddle said
it must be a mistake. Mr. Landolfi said the audience would be heard.
Representatives for 7 -Eleven: Jack Railing, P.E.
Rich Bradley
Ed Collins
(Jack Railing did most of the speaking with some input from
Mr. Bradley.)
Mr. Landolfi asked if anyone present would like to be heard.
Conchetta Olivieri, Old Hopewell Road:
Concerns: traffic problem, Old Hopewell Road is very dangerous,
bad accidents all the time, - would like to see no
entrance to Old Hopewell Road.
worried about well contamination from gasoline and
chemicals.
pest control
Rose Wells, Old Hopewell Road.
concern: traffic problem
Claudia Archimede, Mohawk Drive
concern: traffic problem
The public hearing was closed by Mr. Landolfi.
There was some discussion between Mr. Railing and the members of
the board concerning the possibility of not having an entrance/exit
onto Hopewell Road. Mr. Railing stated that his client was very
desirable of the entrance/exit since he was trying to attract
customers from the appartment complexes located off Old Hopewell,
and customers would not be able to go north on Route 9 without it.
Mr. Urciouli suggested that no left turns onto Old Hopewell Road
01 be allowed. There was more discussion between board members on
this possible compromise.
Page 4 February 14, 1984
At the February 14th, 1984 meeting of the Zoning Board of
Appeals, a motion was made by Mrs. 'waddle, to grant the requested
special use permit subject to the following conditions:
(1). Approval of the Dutchess County Department of Health
shall be obtained prior to the issuance of a building permit.
(2). Approval of the Dutchess County Department of Public Works
shall be obtained prior to the issuance of a building permit in
accordance with their letter dated 12/8/83.
(3) . Approval of the New York State Department of Transportation
if required, shall be obtained prior to the issuance of a
building permit.
(4). An erosion control plan shall be submitted to the Conser-
vation Advisory Council for their review and !-hen shall be an -
proved by the Engineer to the Town prior to the issuance of
a building permit.
(5) . Drainaae Man shall be submitted to .and -_approved �;v the
Engineer to the Town prior to the issuance of a :�uilaina permit.
The Conservation Advisory Council shall be given in opportTunity
to review the Mans.
(6). Downstream drainage fee of $.l5 per square moot of newly
constructed rooted areas and areas covered by impervious mat-
erial shall be paid prior to the issuance of a building permit.
Applicant's engineer shall calculate previously coverea areas
if credit is sought.
(7). Anv new signs to be located on the buildina -end on the
site shall conform to the requirements of the Town of `.danpincer
Zoning Ordinance, unless a variance is first obtained.
(8). Lighting plan shall be submitted and approved by the
Building Inspector prior to the issuance of a building permit.
(9). The existing gasoline storage tanks shall be removed and
replaced by New York State Building and Fire approved tanks.
(10) . Emergency shutoff to the gasoline pumps shall ,be pro-
vided and there shall be easy access to the station attendant.
,%No,
Page 5
February 14, 1984
{11). The Fire Prevention Bureau shall be given an oppor—
tunity to review the building plans prior to the issuance
,. of a building permit.
(12). Approval of the New York State Deaprtment Qf Labor,
Division of Industrial Safety Services, the Dutchess County
Department of Health, Department of Enviromental Conservation,
and O.S.H.A. on the dispensing of gasoline, if required, shall
be obtained prior to the issuance of a building permit.
(13). Variance was qranted by the Zoning Board of Appeals
on Januar✓ 10th, 1984 on the setback on Hopewell Road, and
having the food store and gasoline sales.
(14). That there he no left turn onto Hopewell Road permitted.
The motion was seconded by :fir. Urciouli
`Dote:
.^sir. Lanuoifi - aye_
Mr. Corteiiino - ive
Mr. Urciouli - ave
The motion was carried.
`%W
lir. Caballero - ave
_-Mrs . Waddle - ave
Page 6
February 14, 1984
Mr. Landolfi read the next appeal:
"Appeal #724, at the request of Vincent Cappelletti, seeking
a Special Use Permit pursuant to Article IV, Section 422, NB Zone
#6 of the Town of Wappinger Zoning Ordinance, to permit him to
have a motor vehicle sales and rental on property located on the
corner of Route 376 and Maloney Road, being parcel #6259-02-550835,
in the Town of Wappinger." "Are there any representatives for Mr.
Cappelletti present?"
No one was present. A motion was made by Mrs. Waddle to table the
appeal until the next meeting, March 13, 1984.
The motion was seconded by Mr. Caballero.
Vo to :
Mr. Landolfi - aye
Mr. Caballero - aye
Mr. Urciouli - aye
The motion was carried.
Mrs. Waddle - aye
Mr. Cortellino - aye
Mr. Landolfi read the next appeal:
"Appeal #725, at the request of R.B. Knouse Enterprises, seeking
an amended Special Use Permit pursuant to Article IV, Section 422,
NB Zone #6 of the Town of Wappinger Zoning Ordinance, to permit him
to construct a sixteen by sixteen foot (16'x 16') addition to
their existing building to relocate the spray booth on property lo-
cated on the corner of Route 9 and Smithtown Road, being parcel
#6157-04-730008, in the Town of Wappinger."
Representatives of R.B. Knouse Enterprises:
Dave Hurxtahl
Jay Morse
Mr. Landolfi asked if there were any people in the audience who
wished to be heard. There were none.
There was some discussion among the board members and the represent-
atives of R.B. Knouse Enterprises. Mrs. Waddle asked if a new sign
would be placed on the building. Mr. Hurxtahl replied that no sign
would be placed on the addition.
A motion was made by Mrs. Waddle to grant the amended permit.
The motion was seconded by Mr. Caballero.
Page 7
Vote:
Mr. Landolfi - aye
Mr. Caballero - aye
Mr. Urciouli - aye
The motion was carried.
February 14, 1984
Mrs. Waddle - aye
Mr. Corteliino - aye
The next appeal was read by Mr. Landolfi:
" Appeal #726, at the request of Jeff Hunt Developers, seek-
ing a variance of Article IV, Section 421, R-20 Standards, Sideyard
Lot Line Requirement fo the Town of Wappinger zoning Ordinance, to
permit an attached 10' by 12' deck to be located within fourteen
feet of the sideyard lot line where twenty feet is required, on prop-
erty locared on the corner of Mina Drive and Nancyaleen Drive, Lot
#9 of the Pondview Subdivision, being parcel #6157-02-989753,in
the Town of Wappinger."
Representatives of Jeff Hunt Developers were:
Mr. Jeff Hunt
Mr. Jack Railing, Engineer
Mr. Landolfi asked if there was anyone from the audience that
wished to be heard. There were none.
Iqw There was a general discussion between the board members and Mr.
Railing. One of the questions raised was if there were going to be
many variance requests of this type from this development. Mr.
Railing replied there probably would be due to the R-20 setback
requirements being enforced in this subdivision. He said R-15
requirements would allow more flexibility and create less problems.
The board decided to request a workshop meeting with the Town Board
and members of the Planning Board to discuss the possible rezoning
of the area to R-15. The question of what to do with the variance
at hand was raised. A suggestion to table it until the March 13th,
meeting to see if the Town Board acted on the rezoning request
before acting on the variance was made. All agreed.
A motion was made by Mrs. Waddle to tabl& action on the appeal until
the March 13, 1984 meeting.
The motion was seconded by Mr. Caballero.
Vote:
Mr. Landolfi - aye Mrs. Waddle - aye
Mr. Caballero - aye Mr. Cortellino - aye
Mr. Urciouli - aye
The motion was carried.
Page 8
February 14, 1984
Mr. Landolfi read the next appeal:
"Appeal # 727, at the request of Louis M. Werbalowsky, seeking
low a determination pursuant to Article IV, Section 404.32 and 404.33
of the Town of Wappinger Zoning Ordinance, as to whether or not
a proposed use is less non -conforming or similiar to a previous
use with regard to an existing structure located on property on Old
Route 9, in the HB-lA zone, being parcel #6157-02-552940, in the
Town of Wappinger."
Representative of Mr. Werbalowski: himself
Mr. Landolfi asked if there was any one in the audience that wished
to be heard. There were none.
There was a short discussion among the board members and Mr. Wer-
balowski as to the proposed use fo the lot. Questions were raised
as to how,many people will be there at one time, the amount of traf-
fic and the primary use.
A motion was made by Mr. Cortellino to say the proposed use is
less non -conforming as stated in the present facts; however, should
the use increase to a level considered to be excessive (more than
ten cars at one time) for a residence, Mr. Werbalowski should come
before the board again for a rediscussson.
The motion was seconded by Mr. Caballero.
Vote:
Mr. Landolfi - aye Mrs. Waddle - aye
Mr. Caballero - aye Mr. Cortellino - aye
Mr. Urciouli - aye
The motion was carried.
Mr. Landolfi then read the next appeal:
"Appeal #728, at the request of Mr. and Mrs. Edwin Niemcyk,
seeking a Special Use Permit pursuant to Article IV, Section422 of
the Town of Wappinger Zoning Ordinance, to establish an auto repair
business, plus existing bar, and a principle residence and other
appropriate uses on the n/f Raneri property located on Route 9D,
being parcel # 6056-02-783920, in the Town of Wappinger."
A motion was made to "refer the appeal to the Planning Board by Mrs.
Waddle.
Page 9
February 14, 1984
The motion was seconded by Mr. Urciouli.
Vote:
"`"' Mr. Landolfi - aye Mrs. Waddle - aye
Mr. Caballero - aye 1 Mr. Cortellino - aye
Mr. Urciouli - aye
The motion was carried.
A motion to adjourn the meeting was mad6 by Mrs. Waddle.
The motion was seconded by Mr. Caballero.
Vote:
Mr. Landolfi - aye
Mr. Caballero - aye
Mr. Urciouli - aye
The motion was carried.
The meeting was adjourned at 8:35 P.M.
MU
Mrs. Waddle - aye
Mr. Cortellino - aye
.t) FES ISO
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
TOWN OF WAPPINGER
COUNTY OF DUTCHESS
STATE OF NEW YORK
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -X
IN THE MATTER OF
THE REQUEST OF DENIS & ANNE M. Mc'MAHON
FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR THE MARIA
REGINA CHAPEL.
- - - - - - - --- - - - - - - - - - - -X
APPEAL # 714
Town Hall
Mill Street
Wappingers Falls, NY 12590
January 10th, 1984
7:00 o'clock p.m.
PRESIDING: JOSEPH LANDOLFI, CHAIRMAN
PRESENT: G. GEORGE URCIUOLI, BOARD MEMBER
ANGEL CABELLERO, BOARD MEMBER
CHARLES A. CORTELLINO, BOARD MEMBER
BETTY ANN RUSS, SECRETARY
HANS R. GUNDERUD, BUILDING INSPECTOR
PAMELA FARNSWORTH., ZONING ADMINISTRATRIX
Registered
Professional
Reporter
Philip E. 'Stillerman, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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APPEARANCES:
CORBALLY, GARTLAND & RAPPLEYEA, ESQ.
Attorneys to the Town
35 Market Street
Poughkeepsie, NY 12601
BY: JON H. ADAMS, ESQ.
PETER VENEZIA, ESQ.
Attorney for Mr. and Mrs. McMahon
Gilbert Street Professional Building
Monroe, NY
M
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Good evening,
'
ladies and gentlemen.
May I call the
Zoning Appeals Board
to order? We will
have the roll call.
SECRETARY RUSS:
Mr. Urciuoli?
%
MR. URCIUOLI:
Here.
SECRETARY RUSS:
Mr. Cabellero?
MR. CABELLERO:
Here.
SECRETARY RUSS:
Mr., Cortellino?
MR, CORTELLINO:
Here.
SECRETARY RUSS:
Mrs. Waddle is not
present.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: For the benefit
of you who are here for the first time,
who are before us for
the first time, I
-3 -
will explain the procedures that we will
go through in each case. We will have an
open discussion where everyone will be
given an opportunity to be heard. At the
conclusion of the hearing, we may or may
not render a decision this evening. You
may elect to stay if you feel a decision
might be rendered. Either way, you will
be notified by mail. But I would appreciate
it if you would limit your comments relative
to the subject matter. We do sometimes
have subjects that are quite controversial,
and emotional, in nature, but we ask that
you please bring forth the facts so we can
I%W be of help to you.
Before going on, I would like to
recognize that Carol Waddle is not here with
us this evening, and she is the outgoing
chairman of the Zoning Appeals Board. She
has contributed twelve or thirteen years
to the Board, and the last three as chairman,
and I would like that so noted in our minutes.
I think on behalf of myself serving under
her, and I can speak for the members of the
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Board, we appreciate her efforts.
The first case this evening is
Appeal #714 at the request of Denis and
Anne McMahon seeking a Special Use Permit
pursuant to Article IV, Section 421,
paragraph 4 of the Town of Wappinger Zoning
Ordinance, to permit them to have a place
of worship on their property, located on
47 Widmer Road, being parcel #6158-02-81590,
in the Town of Wappinger.
Before I ask whoever is going to speak,
I forgot to ask, have all the abutting
property owners been notified?
SECRETARY RUSS: All of them were
notified according to the records' availabil-
ity in the Assessor's Office.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Whoever is here
this evening to speak in favor of the appeal,
please come forward and identify yourself.
MR. VENEZIA: I am Peter Venezia,
Gilbert Street Professional Building, Monroe,
New York. I would like to, at this point
in regard to the use of the particular
property, and the nature of the application,
-s-
and history of the particular application,
call Father Clarence Kelly. For the record,
Father, would you tell us --
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Excuse me, Father,
Your address for the record?
FATHER KELLY: 8 Pond Place, Oyster
Bay, New York.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Thank you.
Y MR. VENEZIA:
Father Kelly, are you a member of a religious
**W
organization?
Society.
What Society?
Society of St. Pius X.
Q And would you tell us for the Board's benefit when
Your training for the particular Society and
ordination into the Society was?
I entered the seminary in 1964 and studied with
the Franciscan Fathers and at the Catholic Univer-
sity for philosophy; and then for theology at the
Immaculate Conception Seminary in Huntington, New
York, for two years and a second two years of
theology in Econe, Switzerland, which is the major
seminary for St. Pius X, and I was ordained
April 14, 1973. It was nine years training for
the priesthood.
MR. CORTELLINO: You have identified
yourself with a Society with so many schools;
are you representing that you are still a
member of the Society?
FATHER KELLY: Yes.
MR. CORTELLINO: Who has these schools?
FATHER KELLY: I am the superior in
Sw 1I this part of the country.
Q Now, Father, tell us what organizations you have
been associated with, charitable organizations,
and have contributed in their support.
A Our Society has missions all over the country,
in schools-- well, we are a missionary Society,
and we have about forty missionaries, twenty-two
churches, and three schools. One of the schools
is in New York on Long Island, one in Cincinnati,
„s
and one in Denver. Ours is a traditional Society,
type of education given to the children is tra-
ditional Catholic education. In fact, it is the
principle of tradition which caused us to do the
work that we have done, and that is what has drawn
people together and into the traditional Mass --
MR. CORTELLINO: You have identified
yourself with a Society with so many schools;
are you representing that you are still a
member of the Society?
FATHER KELLY: Yes.
MR. CORTELLINO: Who has these schools?
FATHER KELLY: I am the superior in
Sw 1I this part of the country.
Y MR. VENEZIA:
Q
Now, Father, would you tell us when you first
became acquainted with the McMahon property and
in particular, the chapel which is existing on
the property?
A
My first acquaintance was in 1979 and it was in
%"`
relation to a wedding at the chapel, and after
that some of our priests from Ridgefield, Con-
necticut for quite a while served the chapel.
And we on Long Island, the priests on Long Island,
began to service the chapel as of last April.
Q
Would you tell us, Father, besides the chapel, is
there another structure located on the premises?
A
Yes, there is a house.
14W Q
And are there any religious activities conducted
at the house?
A Well, religious activities in the sense of things
associated with the coming of the priests; sometimes
the priests sleep there, eat there occasionally,
but do not reside there. And we have conferences
with people, for example, who wish to see the
priest after the Mass and have conferences with
them at the house. Those would be the types of
things that we do.
ME
Are you aware of any clerical work done at the
house for the purposes of inducting or instructing
or constructing services for the chapel?
Well, not directly. I presume that the relicrious
corporation which runs the chapel itself does do
business at the house, but personally, I am not --
Is the house used as a reception point for reading,
parties, giving instructions, marriages, baptisms --
Yes, it is.
And are you aware of a choir activity?
A Choir practices are in the house too.
And the vestments are stored where, Father?
In the house.
Q And now in addition to yourself, are you aware of
err► any other priests who have said Mass at the chapel
on this property?
Yes.
Who would they be?
Father Anthony Chicata, Father Eugene Berry,
Father Donald Sanborn, Father William Jenkins,
and others too.
Are you aware of their particular religious affil-
iations with the Society?
A They are members of the Society.
0
Q
Which is the Franciscan --
A
No. It is the Society of St. Pius X.
Q
With regard to the other priests, do you know how
often they conducted these services at the McMahon
property?
A
Every Sunday we have Mass,, and today I offered
%W
a Mass, sometimes once a week, sometimes one week-
day.
Q
And with regard to the Masses which are held at
the chapel, would you tell us how many Masses on
Sunday are conducted?
A
One Mass on Sunday.
Q
And during the week, how often are Masses held
during the webk?
A
Quite irregularly; very rarely. Occasionally on
the first Friday of the month and occasionally
when a priest is passing through he may stay at the
house and have a Mass then.
Q
,Arid what would the attendance be at the Mass on
Sunday?
A
I don't know for sure; roughly, occasionally --
probably around thirty people or so, thirty-five,
forty, maybe.
""
Q
Did you ever have occasion to note the number of
v
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cars parked on the property other than the McMahons'
FATHER KELLY: I never specifically
counted them. Somewhere between ten and
fifteen.
MR. CORTELLINO: Thank you.
BY MR. VENEZIA:
Q Do you know what the seating capacity of the
chapel is?
A I never figured it out. I would have to guess
own personal vehicles?
A My understanding is that there are, including those
vehicles, somewhere between ten and fifteen cars
at a time of the Mass.
MR. CORTELLINO: Is it his under-
standing or does he know the number of cars,
or has somebody told him? I don't understand
what he means.
FATHER KELLY: When I drive on the
property, oftentimes --
MR. CORTELLINO: You observed this?
FATHER KELLY: Yes, oftentimes. I
am the last one there because --
MR. CORTELLINO: And how many have you
observed?
FATHER KELLY: I never specifically
counted them. Somewhere between ten and
fifteen.
MR. CORTELLINO: Thank you.
BY MR. VENEZIA:
Q Do you know what the seating capacity of the
chapel is?
A I never figured it out. I would have to guess
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between forty and sixty.
Q Do you anticipate additional Masses added on
Sundays?
Council, the substance of which Canon of the Mass
goes back to Apostilic times. The Mass where it is
said in Latin and the Altar Boys say it in Latin
and the priest has his back to the people and is
facing the altar. And essentially the Mass that
A
No, I don't.
Q
Do you have any anticipation as far as growth of
the particular chapel, or services which are
being provided on a weekly basis?
A
I think that probably the number of people will
remain the same, give or take a few people, as it
is right now. I mean, the Masses have been set
on a regular basis there for some time now, and
there has been no substantial, dramatic, growth.
Q
Would you explain for the benefit of the Board
and the record, when you mentioned a Mass, it is
%W
referred to as a traditional Mass. What is the
Mass that is said?
A
It is the traditional Latin Mass that was said in
the Catholic churches down through the ages up to
the changes which followed the Second Vatican
Council, the substance of which Canon of the Mass
goes back to Apostilic times. The Mass where it is
said in Latin and the Altar Boys say it in Latin
and the priest has his back to the people and is
facing the altar. And essentially the Mass that
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the church used in the Latin rite of the church
used throughout the ages.
Q And that is from Apostilic times to the 1960's?
A The Reform Council did not mandate the substitution
of the new Mass.
MR. CORTELLINO: Is he here as an expert
witness, or what is the reason for his speak-
ing?
MR. VENEZIA: Remarks had been made that
this is a loony or Moonie -type group and --
MR. CORTELLINO: Those remarks did not
come from the Board.
MR. ADAMS: They were not made by the
Board.
MR. VENEZIA: I am saying that remarks
were made, comments were made, and editorials
have been written about what is going on.
MR. CORTELLINO: Locally?
MR. VENEZIA: Yes, and I am trying to
clarify it for the record. Locally the
remarks have been in print, and I am trying
to bring to everyone's benefit that this is
a traditional Latin Mass which some may be
familiar with if they are Roman Catholic.
M
09
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am not a religious person, however.
MR. CORTELLINO: I am not a religious
person. However, I dispute his testimony if
you are bringing him in as an expert because
I dispute his testimony. He is wrong about
the traditional Mass being from Apostilic
times. The Nicene Creed came in later, so
it is not the time of the apostles.
FATHER KELLY: Are you saying that the
Canon of the Mass does not --
MR. CORTELLINO: I didn't say that.
You said the Mass goes back-- Would you read
that back?
(THE APPROPRIATE PORTION OF THE RECORD
WAS READ,BACK TO THE BOARD.)
FATHER KELLY: So you will admit I was
right?
MR. CORTELLINO: I will have to check it.
I have to check it because things have changed
at various times.
FATHER KELLY: The Canon anArz hAt it 4., --
BY MR. VENEZIA:
Q Tell me at the chapel if you confer any sacraments
and what sacraments you do confer.
3
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Yes.
Q To your personal knowledge, have there been object-
ions to the conducting of the services or the at-
tendance on a weekly basis by any local residents,
to your knowledge?
A Not to my knowledge.
MR. VENEZIA: No further questions,
and I ask the Board, if the Board has ques-
The sacrament of penance, the sacrament of matri-
mony, the witness of marriage, Holy Communion,
and the Holy Sacrifice to the Mass, and those are
the holy sacraments we administer.
Q Would you describe for us, physically the ap-
pearance of this particular chapel? What does
it contain as far as statues or other religious
objects?
A If you were to look into it, you would see it as a
beautiful chapel. It has a Gothic wooden altar
and sanctuary, which is filled with very beautiful
statues of the Lord, Blessed Mother, St. Joseph,
Pius X; and an altar rail and pews, and it is a
traditional church building.
Q Is there also a confessional and sacristy? Where
the priests rest?
Yes.
Q To your personal knowledge, have there been object-
ions to the conducting of the services or the at-
tendance on a weekly basis by any local residents,
to your knowledge?
A Not to my knowledge.
MR. VENEZIA: No further questions,
and I ask the Board, if the Board has ques-
cm
09
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tions, that they --
MR. CORTELLINO: You mentioned three
penances, matrimony and communion; is that
correct?
FATHER KELLY: Yes, and baptism too,
I am sorry.
MR. URCIUOLI:
priest?
Are you an ordained
FATHER KELLY: Yes, I am an ordained
Roman Catholic priest; April 14th, 1973, by
Archbishop Marcelle LeFevre.
MR. URCIUOLI: The Society of Pope
Pius X is part of the Roman Catholic faith?
FATHER KELLY: Absolutely it is, but
the structure itself, which is established
in the Diocese of Frebourgh in 1970, in 1976
was suppressed in the Diocese, and so, be-
cause of the adherence of the Society to the
traditional Mass and the Catholic doctrine
and teachings on morality and the hierarchy,
withdrew its approval of the Society.
MR. URCIUOLI: You have been severed,
then?
FATHER KELLY: No, it is just a ques-
3
0
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tion of legal recognition of a religious
society. If your question is the equivalent
of excommunication, the answer is no.
MR. URCIUOLI: I am trying to figure
out if it is Roman Catholic.
FATHER KELLY: Absolutely, because
the thing which makes a person Roman Catholic,
fundamentally a number of things; three things,
essentially; one, what you believe, the doc-
trination adhered to, and second is morality
subscribed to and the concept of morality
and the specific precepts of the moral code,
and finally, the way you worship. Those are
essentially the things a person professes
wr✓ and has the true faith. He is then a member
of the Catholic church.
MR. URCIUOLI: I will back up. Does
the Vatican recognize your society?
FATHER KELLY: I told you, in 1976
the Diocese of Frebourgh, the Diocese of
which it was established, that Diocese with-
drew its approval, and therefore, from the
point of view of the hierarchy the approval
was withdrawn from the society.
-17-
MR. CORTELLINO: Is there any missionary
work?
FATHER KELLY: Yes. Essentially we
are a missionary society; we travel all over
the country saying Mass; the priests say
Mass and go to other churches.
fir`
MR. CORTELLINO: I have seen, not
recently but one time I have seen an ad for
the church people to come in, that they are
welcome to come in off the street or can
come in by invitation.
err►
FATHER KELLY: Well, I never put the
ad in the paper so I am not aware of it.
MR. CORTELLINO: I have seen it.
%W
MR. VENEZIA: If you can be specific
as to what publication the ad was seen in,
I am not personally aware of it.
MR. CORTELLINO: The Southern Dutchess
News, about a year ago, and what I am trying
to establish is whether the public can at-
tend or whether it is a closed group.
FATHER KELLY: If you are asking me if
someone came in would I ask him to leave?
I would not.
cm
Wo
IBY MR. ADAMS:
Q Father Kelly, you referred to a religious corpora-
tion in your reference to activities at the house.
Do you have any knowledge of activities that are
undertaken by a religious corporation?
A To my --
Q Do you have any knowledge as to the name of the
corporation?
A You would have to ask the members of the corpora-
tion. The same name as the church; Maria Regina
Chapel.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It's Maria
Regina Chapel.
MR. VENEZIA: Let's get the speaker's
name.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: For the record,
would you identify yourself please?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I am Dennis
McMahon.
BY MR. ADAMS:
Q When was the corporation formed?
A About a year ago or so.
Q And, Father Kelly, that is a religious corporation
as the term is defined by the Religious Corporation
Law of the State of New York?
MR. VENEZIA: It is a Delaware cor-
poration.
BY MR. ADAMS:.
Q Do you have any proof of incorporation with you
today?
1�w MR. MCMAHON: He knows.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Does your attorney --
MR. MCMAHON: I don't know.
MR. VENEZIA: Not original documents.
I have references to the corporation and --
MR. MCMAHON: May I ask a question if
I may?
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Sure.
MR. VENEZIA: I have an annual fran-
chise tax report which cites the name of
the corporation, which is a Delaware corpora-
tion.
MR. MCMAHON: This is all very simple.
I am a Catholic all my life and I am staying
where I was, to me it is simply-- my question
is, why should we have to go into so much
detail?
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Your lawyers are
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MR. ADAMS: No-- yes.
Q How frequently during the year do you say Mass at
this location?
doing it; we are not, sir.
MR. MCMAHON: I thought you were.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Your lawyer is
going on to the dissertation,• we are willing
to go to the facts.
MR. VENEZIA: For the record, the name
of the corporation is Maria Regina Chapel,
file number 0939344, and this is a State of
Delaware corporation; the date as indicated
on the annual 1983 annual franchise tax re-
port was 6/16/82.
BY
MR. ADAMS:
Q
Are you employed by the corporation, Father?
A
No, I am not.
Q
Do you see any remunerations?
A
Never.
MR. MCMAHON: He's the same thing.
FATHER KELLY: Sit down.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: You will get an
opportunity, sir. is there anything else,
Jo n?
MR. ADAMS: No-- yes.
Q How frequently during the year do you say Mass at
this location?
M
C'_"J
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A At this location? At this location, me personally
or the priests with me?
Q You personally.
A I would say an average of once a month.
Q And under what arrangement is your presence ob-
tained at the Widmer Road property?
A I don't understand what you mean.
Q Is there a request made for your attendance or
how is it, how is your attendance arranged by the
members of the --
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: How do you know
what Sunday to show up, I think is the ques-
tion.
A We make up the Mass schedule for the missions
that we service.
Q Is this church a mission of the society?
A It is a mission on which we service, yes.
MR. CORTELLINO: Does this society
own property anywhere?
FATHER KELLY: Yes, it does.
MR. CORTELLINO: May I ask why it does
not own this particular property?
FATHER KELLY: We don't own all of the
property that we service.
-22 -
MR. CORTELLINO: I think I understand.
FATHER KELLY: we have a number of
churches we service that the New York cor-
poration, we have a New York corporation
called the Society of St. Pius X, Northeast
District, Inc., and that corporation owns our
headquarters in Oyster Bay and a couple of
other churches, but not all of the churches
we service, in fact, what we normally try to
do is, after a while is that we setup a
separate corporation for the various indi-
vidual missions. It is normally the way it
is done.
MR. CORTELLINO: You set up-- you set
err► up separate corporations in the Society's
name, and that is separate?
FATHER KELLY: The religious corporation
MR. CORTELLINO: That is what the ques-
tion is. You set up a corporation in a par-
ticular locality and you incorporate under
the name of the Society of Pope Pius X?
FATHER KELLY: Not necessarily, under
the name of the local church, too.
,%W MR. CORTELLINO: That is the question
-23 -
too. More than one name is used.
(NO RESPONSE.)
are getting confused.
MR. MCMAHON: I am very confused.
BY MR. ADAMS:
Q Are you familiar with the names of the local cor-
porate officers of this corporation?
A No, I am not sure who they area I know that I am
`%W
not even sure of Mr. McMahon as a member of the
corporation. Ham not.
MR. ADAMS: Can we get the names of
the corporate officers?
MR. VENEZIA: Do you wish it read in
at this time?
MR. ADAMS: Are you going to call --
MR.; VENEZIA: You are asking a ques-
%W
tion, I am trying to --
MR. ADAMS: I am going to defer.
MR. VENEZIA: I am not testifying.
MR. ADAMS: I am asking --
MR. VENEZIA: Who are the officers of
the corporation?
MR. MCMAHON: I can --
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Wait a minute. We
are getting confused.
MR. MCMAHON: I am very confused.
m
-24-
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: The question is on
the floor and the question was asked who
the corporate officers are. Do you know
who they are? Who are the corporate officers?
MR. MCMAHON: I will try to ponder.
The first name is Wolf --
MR. ADAMS: And can we have their
corporate capacity or title?
MR. MCMAHON: President sounds close
enough. The next one is Louis Apria.
MR. ADAMS: And his title?
MR. MCMAHON: I believe that he is
Vice -President. The Treasurer is Rosaria
Apria, and those are the ones that I know of.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Any further ques-
tions?
MR. CABELLERO: Yes. Does Maria Regina
Corporation pay any fees or anything to Pope
Pius X Society Corporation?
FATHER KELLY: Yes, they do, I think,
but I am not sure. I think they pay $50 a
week to help defray the expenses for travel
and that type of thing, but I don't handle
that so I cannot tell you for sure.
05
-25 -
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Thank you very much.
Who else is here to speak in favor?
MR. VENEZIA: I would like to have
Denis --
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Are you finished
with your dissertation?
MR. VENEZIA: I am calling Mr. McMahon
now, as the next party.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Okay.
BY MR. VENEZIA:
Q State for the record your full name and address.
A Denis McMahon, 47 Widmer Road.
Q Now tell us, if on your property there is now
existing a chapel which is used for religious
purposes?
A Yes, the answer is yes, there is.
Q And tell us when that chapel first came into exis-
tence?
A You are going to ask me specifics?
Q Do you recall?
A I will give you my best guess, but I will be close,
plus or minus a year, but I will be close, I will
say '78 or 179.
Q And, in fact, were religious services conducted
-26 -
in 1979?
A
Yes they were.
Q
Including a marriage?
A
Yes there were.
Q
And at this time the chapel was in use, you have
another structure on your premises which is a one -
low
family residence?
A
Correct.
Q
And what was, what is that one -family residence
being used for, if anything, in conjunction of the
chapel?
`BIW
A
Let's see. The family, of course, grew up there,
and are growing up in the same house. It is a
house, in addition to that, my family leaves a
section of that house for generally speaking, I
will say the priesthood activities.
Q
Tell us what rooms are designated, and the size of
the rooms.
Oh yeah, well, basically the first floor, okay?
The ground floor, basically, that portion of the
house is set aside for the priests on these days
and occasions, and then upstairs are the bedrooms,
so that is where the kids go.
MR. CORTELLINO: You said on these days
In
IR
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and these occasions, you said --
MR. MCMAHON: Yes sir.
MR. CORTELLINO: Does that mean that on
Sundays other than Sundays, first Fridays
or occasionally on weekdays the first floor
is used by you for normal household purposes?
MR. MCMAHON: Uhm, to a point.
MR. CORTELLINO: Where is the kitchen
located?
MR. MCMAHON: On the uhm, uhm, north-
west cornera-
MR. CORTELLINO: First or second floor?
MR. MCMAHON: First, and the cooking
is done, for instance, for the travelling --
whoever is travelling requires something --
MR. CORTELLINO: And the upper story
is bedrooms, mainly?
MR. MCMAHON: That is richt-_
BY MR. VENEZIA:
Q Now, do you have religious vestments in the one -
family structure?
A Yeah`.
Q And do you store altar wine and bread for the
Communion And the candles?
-28-
3
A
Yes, yes.
Q
And do you receive mail for the chapel at the
one -family residence?
A
Yes I do.
Q
Now, the clerical work for the baptisms and mar-
riage certificates; where is that done?
r A
Yes.
Q
Where is it done?
A
When the priest will-- do one of the operations it
requires some entry into that, then the priest will
enter into it, okay? You know, the form required.
Q
It is done where?
A
okay, he will do it in the house there, or in the
chapel, depending again upon what the activity is.
It is carried back and forth; it is a ledger.
Q
And the telephone is used for the purposes of ar-
ranging his religious services?
A
Yes, sir.
Q
Where is the telephone located?
That is uhm, uhm, basically moves around, but it is
located, generally speaking, between the dining
room and the kitchen.
Q
And is there a telephone in the chapel?
No.
-29 -
MR. CORTELLINO: Is that phone number
separate from your phone number?
MR. MCMAHON: That phone number is
mine and the chapel's. They are identical.
BY MR. VENEZIA:
Q And you are storing flowers or other ornaments
for the religious services in your house?
A Unfortunately all is in the house. As soon as I
get --
Is there a choir?
Yes there is.
err Q And where does the choir hold its rehearsals?
In the house, and they're not bad when they get
going; they are pretty good, when they get going,
and then they throw me out of there.
In the event that one of the visiting priests must
speak with a parishioner for purposes of instruc-
tion or conference, where would that normally take
place?
Where? The main parlor is set aside and the Father
got that for whatever requirements he needs.
Tell us what your educational background is.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Is that relative
II to this?
In
-30 -
MR. VENEZIA: He holds degrees, and one
is in the area of theology.
MR. CORTELLINO: Fine.
MR. MCMAHON: A Master's Degree in
religious education.
MR. CORTELLINO: Is that theology?
MR. MCMAHON: A Master's Degree in
religious education requires six or seven
years, and after that I have two additional
years of dogmatic theology, and I can speak
on that with you, too.
MR. CORTELLINO: I don't speak on any-
thing.
BY MR. VENEZIA:
'fir✓ Q Did there come a point when you were seeking the
assistance of a doctor, a medical physician?
A Yes sir.
Q And did he recommend to you that you take a course
in any employment or activity, and if so, why?
A Yes he did. The doctor said to me --
Q Doctor who?
Goodman. Yes, he did, and what he said was uhm, uhm,
because of my ability physically at that time, to
be employed, he said why don't you do something, for
n
On
IR
-31-
instance, with the church, and I said okay.
Q Was that prior to the establishment of the chapel?
A Yes, uhm, yes.
Q Would you tell us if any of your children have any
contacts with a religious order or religious ed-
ucation?
A Yes they do.
Q And can you tell us who they are and their back-
ground?
A My son, Michael, who by the way did make-- uhm,
uhm, West Point, sign-up, he made that but did not
take it, and he went into a seminary to become a
priest.
Q What seminary?
A Out in Colorado with Father Wolf.
Q When will he be ordained?
A It is a matter of time for the bishop for ordina-
tion; that is-- it is that close. His ability for
ordination is very close.
Q Would that be in a month or a year?
A I cannot judge that; that is up to the bishop.
Q Does he hold a religious order now?
A I don't know, to tell you the truth. My second
son does.
M
In
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-32-
Q Your second son does? Does he have any special
religious training?
A Yes he does. He is-- he is a deacon. He was
made deacon by the archbishop and scheduled, to my
knowledge, for the priesthood, to be made a priest,
ordained a priest in May of this year, and so that
is four or five months from now.
MR. CORTELLINO: May I ask a question?
MR. VENEZIA: Sure.
MR. CORTELLINO: Dr. Goodman, who
suggested you find another activity when
you were incapacitated, what is his back-
ground?
MR. MCMAHON: He is Jewish.
MR. CORTELLINO: I didn't ask you that.
I did not ask you what his religious background
was.
MR. MCMAHON: I am sorry.
MR. CORTELLINO: I didn't ask that.
What is his qualifications for advising you
as to what pursuits were to be followed?
MCMAHON: He named one.
MR. CORTELLINO: Being Jewish makes
him an advisor?
-33 -
MR. MCMAHON: I am not being funny.
What is his background and --
MR. CORTELLINO: You cited him as an
authority to guide you.
MR. MCMAHON: I see, I see. I was ill.
Q Is he a medical doctor?
*W MR. CORTELLINO: No, that is not the
question. What kind of medical doctor?
Q What is his specialty?
A Neurosurgeon.
MR. CORTELLINO: Why did he pick that
area of vocation? Why didn't he say sailing?
MR. MCMAHON: That may have been too
physical. At that time I was unable to con-
tinue --
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: We understand that,
but could you answer the question?
MR. CORTELLINO: Why did he give you
one suggestion, rather than two or three or
more?
MR. MCMAHON: I honestly didn't ask him.
Q For the record and clarification as to Dr. Goodman,
what ailments were you seeking treatment from him
for?
-34 -
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: I don't know if
that is pertinent.
MR. VENEZIA: It goes as to why a
neurosurgeon was involved in this and in-
volved in the appropriateness of the advice,
since that is in the minds of the Board Mem-
bers.
MR..MCMAHON: I had a job and I was --
failing to be able to handle the job. Why?
Because I was-- strung out. I was on the
floor. And basically, then, I went to the
r doctor, and the doctor said you are on the
floor, my friend, because there is a problem
from the neck up, and not the way you are
thinking, but basically the problem was,
that, the control, physical control of my
body was failing to be proper, and therefore
he was going to make sure that besides giving
me medication, etcetera, and trying to make
sure that I was able to stay alive, while I
tried to get
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Thank you.
MR. CORTELLINO: Thank you.
Q Mr. McMahon, at the time that you had work done
V5
IR
-35-
for the purpose of the chapel, are you aware of the
building inspector in the town or village, rather --
Mr. Gunderud, town? Was he also aware of the build-
ing going on?
A Well, to a point, yes. I guess, you know, we backed
a cement truck into Hans' yard, I think it was the
first time, I guess, right, Hans? And they are
looking for the chapel and he didn't know it was
a chapel and Hans --
Q That was the cement truck for the concrete slab?
A For the floor, yes.
Q At that time Hans Gunderud was aware of the chapel?
A Yes.
Q Did you seek his advice?
A In regard to the chapel? In terms of how to build
it? It was built already, or how to put the cement
down?
Q When was the first time you approached him to get
a permit?
A Hans said to me-- uhm, uhm he said, "Come to see
me."
Q When was that, a month, a year?
A '79. '78 or '79. In '79.
MR. GUNDERUD: It had to be 1979 or 1980.
In
n
M
A
Q
A
Q
A
-36-
I was not there in 178.
And basically what happened was that, I think,
Hans then sent around a bunch of papers, you know,
for me to fill out, and I looked at them-- I could
not fill them out in a million years by myself,
you know, I mean, so basically then I said, over
time, Hans, I cannot fill them out, and he said,
all right, I will send somebody around and then a
gentleman did come around but the man died since
then, you know, one of the men- I don't know
where I am in time, but then all of a sudden it
got very pressurized, you know what I am saying
in terms of we are going to do this now.
When was that pressure?
The one we are on now.
Which is when?
The fall of last year.
MR. GUNDERUD: Six months or so.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Is that for the
building permit and the application for the
building permit? Is that what he is talking
about?
MR. GUNDERUD: For issuance of a Cer-
tificate of Occupancy, which cannot be taken
-37 -
out before he has the building permit and
Special Use Permit and the paper that I gave
to_�him were all the papers necessary to com-
plete that process, and I invited him and
advised him that he was in violation of the
Zoning Ordinance and he established the chapel
on his property and it was necessary for him
to fill out the papers and come in for a Specia
Use Permit and, initially when the cement truck
incident occurred I knew his children were in-
volved in religious studies and at that time
14W it was my understanding that the chapel was
being converted or used just for his own family,
for his own sons, and didn't realize that it
err was a public use there until, I believe, early
1982, when there was an advertisement in the
newspaper that he had this chapel existing on
Widmer Road, and that people were welcome to
join and participate.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Up to that date
there was no paperwork per se, and no building
permit, no C.O. and no Special Use Permit?
MR. MCMAHON: You have to understand,
gentlemen, I have to say this--
ME
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: You have not been
bashful so far, so I --
MR. MCMAHON: I didn't hear you.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Go ahead.
MR. MCMAHON: The point I am trying
to make, to say, is that you know we had
that building basically since I moved onto
the property, and now the modification of it
I will admit we started to change, but ex-
ternally it was a small amount of change
and it is the same thing on the road. If
,r
you really want to know, the people used to
come around anyway to the house, but the thing
is this, that I am trying to say it is very
simple, as of today you can look from the
road and it would be the same as if you looked
from the road 8, 10, 9 years ago. It is the
same way. It has never changed. Do you know
what I am saying? I hope so. If you don't,
I am not saying it right.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: I think so.
MR. MCMAHON: So the point is it is
already built and already occupied and all
these things. And do you know what I mean if
0
MR. CORTELLINO: You own the property?
MR. MCMAHON: The bank owns it, but --
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Your name is on the
-39 -
there was something wrong and you can ask
Hans, because I in fact wanted to be sure
that we were not causing problems, there was
a new garage put up and I sent the guy down
to get the okay before he came to my house
before putting it up, and he did that, and
*MW
then I wanted to be sure that what we did was
okay too, so I filled out all the forms Hans
told me to.
MR. CORTELLINO: You are not a corporate
officer, are you?
MR. MCMAHON: I am not a corporate
anything. I don't know what that means.
BY
MR. VENEZIA:
Q
You are the resident --
A
Yes.
Q
And what is your function?
A
I am the nearest neighbor.
Q
You don't ---
A
I am the sacristy assistant, and do all or a lot of
the work.
0
MR. CORTELLINO: You own the property?
MR. MCMAHON: The bank owns it, but --
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Your name is on the
11
mortgage?
MR. CORTELLINO:
place?
-40-
Basically it is your
MR. MCMAHON: Yes, okay, yes.
Q
when you say sacristy assistant, what do you mean
by that?
1'"
A
I will get in trouble. The Father will beat up
the sacristy assistant when he makes a mistake, but
I take care of seeing that everything is proper
inside the chapel, so when the Father comes for the
Mass, bless it, bless the sacrament and holy sacri-
fices are proper, and anything that I forget I get
it, in the neck.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Any additional ques-
tions, sir?
MR. VENEZIA: Yes.
Q
Did you submit a plan to the Planning Board and was
that reviewed by the Conservation Advisory Council?
A
There were a number of items that I filled out, yes.
Q
I would like to show you a letter from the Conserva-
tion Advisory Council and ask you if you recognize
that?
A
Yes, I do.
Q
And would the record reflect that there is a letter
M
-41-
of October 23rd, 1983, from the Town of Wappingers
Conservation Advisory Council to the Board members
advising that at the October 20th, 1983 meeting
of the advisory council, the above application was
discussed, and we agreed that the plan was accept-
able, and that is in reference to the Maria Regina
Chapel as filed by Denis and Anne M. McMahon on
Widmer Road, which is part of the public record.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Yes. And is there.
anything else?
MR. VENEZIA: There is a number of let-
ters --
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: We have the corres-
pondence.
Q Did you contact the residents on Widmer Road?
A Well, in a sense, I suppose you could say I did,
but they contacted me.
Q They contacted you?
A Yes.
Q And did they indicate to you if they agreed or
disagreed or approved or disapproved of the exist-
ence of the Maria Regina Chapel?
MR. ADAMS: Excuse me, but I am not
sure if the rules of practice before this
-42 -
Board permit hearsay.
MR. VENEZIA: We have a
MR. ADAMS: It is hearsay.
MR. VENEZIA: We have statements signed
by the residents which is admissible, and I
am trying to lay the foundation.
MR. ADAMS: Go ahead and lay the founda-
tion.
Q Did you contact the residents?
A Yes.
Q And did they indicate to you in writing if they
agreed or disagreed?
A Yes.
Q Do you have it with you?
'err A I don't think I do-- yes, I didn't think this may
be it-- I do, part of it, anyway.
MR. CORTELLINO: Mr. Venezia, I don't
understand. I am not too familiar with the
law. The point is it seems that you are try-
ing to make this a position of popularity,
and the Council is addressing whether there
is an impact that is not what is before the
Board. What is before the Board is a violation
of the Zoning Ordinance and the petition, if
s
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-43-
there is a petition, before us would go to
the Town Board and ask the Town Board to take
action. We take action on special use permits
and variances that address the Zoning Ordin-
ance. We are not here; we would like to
please the people but we don't take popularity
votes.
MR. VENEZIA: I am sure the impact on
the adjoining land owners is a prime considera-
tion and whether or not the application is
dista9teful to them. All the landowners, in
fact, all the residents of Widmer Road sup-
port the enterprise, and it certainly negates
allegations of adverse impact on the community
as seen by the adjoining landowners. And, you
opened tonight's session with a statement
that all were, in fact, notified by mail as
required by statute. So, if they are present
tonight it would be appropriate for me to call
any of them who may be in the audience for
expression of their views.
MR. MCMAHON: May I ask a question be-
fore I sit down? My question is, what is the
matter? What are we waiting for?
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: By law, we are
required to go through a public hearing.
This is the public hearing this evening for
the benefit of everyone to hear the pros and
cons related to your case. So bear with us
if we try to adhere to the laws. I don't
*W want to go to jail. We are going through the
legal processes.
MR. MCMAHO,N: One quick question. Is
this the third meeting or the second meeting?
MR. CORTELLINO: This is the first
public heating.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: This is the first
public hearing, sir. You have been before us
fir, many times before, but in an informal setting,
and we gave you the courtesy of trying --
MR. MCMAHON: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Now, sir, you have
any more witnesses that you want to bring
forth?
MR. ADAMS: I have several questions for
Mr.`McMahon.
MR. MCMAHON: He's the guy I want to
talk to. I want to talk to you, Jon.
-45 -
BY MR. ADAMS:
Q Do you recall December 25th as being a Sunday in
1983?
A I don't know.
Q Give me a calendar and Was Mass given Christmas
Day?
r MR. VENEZIA: May I ask the relevance
of the question? I object to it on the basis
that, quite obviously there is an attempt to
create a basis of further actions against
Mr. McMahon and I want to state for the record
that at the last meeting-- that is the basis
of the objection. And we invited and urged
that the building inspector inspect the struc-
;%r ture for purposes of determining whether it
is a safe building and the building inspector
came with a posted notice to cease and desist
use of the building without entering into the
building. And I believe the questions directed
by Mr. Adams is an attempt to elicit from Mr.
McMahon information in violation of the Fifth
Amendment Rights.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Fine. Joh:,. your
Vint 11
questions?
-46-
�V —
MR. VENEZIA: And he declines to answer.
MR. MCMAHON: I didn't hear the question.
MR. CORTELLINO: Your lawyer said not
to answer it.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Yes, your lawyer
said don't answer it.
MR. MCMAHON: I am sorry.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Any further ques-
tions?
MR. VENEZIA: I have for the record a
v three -paged document indicating the residence
on Widmer Road and their agreement and consent
to the establishment.of the chapel, and the
three -paged document contains 48 names.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Fine. Thank you.
MR. VENEZIA: And I submit that for
the Board's consideration.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Okay.
MR. VENEZIA: Are there any residents of
Widmer Road who wish to speak at this time,
who are present?
MR. CORTELLINO: Mr. Venezia, are you
calling these people --
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Sir, you are switch-
n
In
-47-
ing roles around. I gave you the courtesy
of permitting you to run the meeting for the
first hour and, since I have been appointed
as chairman by the Town Board, may I run the
rest of the meeting?
MR. VENEZIA: Certainly.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Thank you very much.
MR. VENEZIA: But, I am not done with
the presentation if there is legal argument.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Then finish your
presentation.
MR. VENEZIA: This is the appropriate
time for the residents of Widmer Road to
speak and I am calling for -
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: You said you had a
presentation.
MR. CABELLERO: Would you wait for the
person to speak and after he is through you
can ask him questions.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Who is here to speak
in favor of the appeal? Please come forward
and identify yourself for the record, please.
Anybody in favor?
MR. REED: I am Robert Reed from Yon-
In
M
kers, New York, and I am a Roman Catholic,
and I don't want to see another church be
closed down and I have something to read with
regard to Mr. 1�Mahon's defense. This is from
Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen in 1972, when he
won the award of Catholic Man of Action, and
I would like to read from this article. "First
of all, about our Church. We are coming in-
deed into difficult times. But do you know
who's --If
MR. CORTELLINO: May I interrupt? The
thing is what I said earlier, we are interested
in whether he should get a Special Use Permit
if he is in violation Of the Zoning Ordinance.
I am not interested in religious statements.
Excuse me, I used an improper term. I don't
wish statements that don't address the topic
at hand, which is l: is it primarily a residenc
or primarily a church? Which use came first?
Which is it? Which is the major use? That
is what we are basing this Special Use Permit
on, not on what Bishop Sheen says. It is ar-
gumentative. You have to guide us for us to
give you a Special Use Permit.
-49-
C"AIRMAN LANDOLFI: 1 am goi
You to continue, however, we ng to Permit
Yet
any facts have not heard
• This is
waters. Just muddling the
We Fant to render a decision
have heard nothingand I
that will help us render
'� a decision one way or the of
but your la her, for or against,
lawyer is calling it and I will
him to finish. Permit
discoura a We are not here to promote or
g religion.
That is not the issue.
MR. CORTELLINO: And we have Special
Permits for Ve given
churches in the past.
MR• REED; "But, do you know who's
to save the Church in going
Bishops,these times? Not us
+' Or Priests, or religious.
going to You are
do it, you lay People;
not come to a full have
consciousness of this
Sion.
But you have to do it! You
mis-
now the eyes and ears and u have to be
to keep the mind Of the Church
rest of us as
Today some of we Ought to be...
Priests are
us are failing-- some of us
failing miserably,
Y` some nuns are
"Now you can stop this d
goin efeCtion thatfs
g on in the Church today; Watch
your
M
-50-
priests— see that they preach to you the
Gospel! Watch your religious-- see that they
act like religious, that they pray and that
all of us are men and women of God! This is
your mission! And so, it's not just acting
through Bishops and through the organization
of the Church that you will effect this
change. You will do it in your own parish!
This is your first mission as regards the
Church!
"...And in conclusion, then, I beg you,
love your Church! Keep us holy, and insist
upon it! You can do it! Believe me, I have
met today a half dozen groups of 10 men who
VAW could go into a parish and say to a priest
who is falling a bit away from what the Good
Lord wanted him to be, and say:: 'Listen, you
get back to what you're supposed to be!' And
he would do it! And I see dozens and dozens
of tens of women who could do the same with
the nuns." And that is what I believe. And
that is what he is saying. He wants to put
a church there, nobody wants it there, and it
has something to do with God and a Catholic
Ln
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man of action.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Thank you, sir.
Who else is here to speak for the appeal
this evening?
MR. DAVIDSON: Robert Davidson, Green
Horizons Farm, Pawling, New York. I have
a couple of questions: Have you considered
that the existing structure architecturally
is not different from the home and the reno-
vations that have been made in the pre-
existing structures? I wonder if that has
an impact as far as cars on the road? I
understand that all cars are in the property
line or whether it's a public nuisance be-
cause of the gathering crowds that are al-
lowed, or disturbances to neighbors. I un-
derstand that is not the case. And, since
there is no impediment of traffic, and no in-
fringement on privacy and property rights,
and values of the neighbors, and since it
does not impact directly on the Town, and
since it's not an endangerment or in the
pursuit of profit, it's not in the venture
of private enterprise as a business, then I
13
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a
05
-52-
honestly cannot understand why there would
be a substantial objection.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Thank you, sir.
By the way, you addressed tonight what we
have been waiting to hear. Thank you for
bringing those ideas forward. Now, is there
anybody else here this evening to speak in
favor of the application of the appeal?
MS. 14ANEY: Nancy Maney, Beechwood
Circle, Wappingers Falls. I was led to
believe that the house and chapel were re-
lated to youth, and I think the lawyer and
Mr. McMahon brought out that the house and
chapel are related in youth.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Thank you. Is
there anybody else; please come forward. Is
there someone with a hand up back there?
MS. D'ALBRO: My name is Carmella
D'Albro. I own property right next door,
and I approve.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Fine. Thank you
very much.
MS. D'ALBRO: I've been there for
thirty-three years.
V
In
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CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Thank you. Is
there anybody else to speak in favor of the
appeal?
MR. JAEGER: My name is Jaeger, and I
am from New Hamburg, and I attend Mass at
the Maria Regina Chapel when in the area,
and I sure thank you. I can assure you that
it is a very religious family, and that their
entire life revolves around the Catholic
faith and activities of the church are paral-
lel in the home. With the choir practices
and the priests and the counselling of the
various parishioners and it is not a public
chapel; it is very limittd. The Catholic
faith had about 8% apostles in the fourth
century, and now it's 99% and the church is
stable, and I see no reason why it needs a
Special Use Permit, being that it is so in-
volved in the family and entwined in the life
with two priests in his family, or two
priests -to -be, and I am supporting it and
requesting that the Board approve it. Thank
you.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Thank you. Is
En
�J
In
-54-
there anybody else? Seeing none, we will
allow you another ten minutes to wrap it
up-- I am sorry, there is another hand.
MRS. SHAPIRO: I am Rose Shapiro; I
live directly across the street from the
McMahons. There are very few cars coming
and going, and there are no problems, never
a problem with the McMahons. And, they have
invited us on various occasions to their
chapel and we have joined them and I have
been in the chapel and there are no problems.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Thank you.
MR. NICHIK: My name is Frank Nichik,
23 Helen Drive, Wappingers Falls. Since I
found out that we have a very nice chapel
which is very convenient for me as a resident
of Wappingers Falls to go to the church more
proximate to my home in terms of inclement
weather, and I feel that the church needs
more churches.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Anybody else in
favor of the appeal before I ask who is
against? Hearing none, would you conclude
please, Mr. Venezia?
M
Cm
-55-
MR. VENEZIA: I would like to state
for the record first that the existence of
the structures predates the present ordinance,
having been passed in 1980, and the existing
structure existed prior to 1980. I would
also like to state for the record that attempts
were made to obtain complete copies of the
1963 zoning ordinance, and I have been pro-
vided only pages from the ordinance, but not
able to obtain the entire ordinance, and I
tlwould like to state that under the prior
err°
ordinance of 1963 until 1980, a religious
use was permitted with a special permit
being issued and that, under the new ordinance
subsequent to 1980 there is a prohibition
against us, and I believe that that is one
of the items which is in contention and I
have already submitted to the Board, evidence
that there is a singular use that is religion,
and that is a residence of the parties, a
one -family structure that is directly con-
cerned with the collateral to, and in support
of, the religious use of the chapel, and I
have already brought to the Board's attention
M
-56-
at a prior hearing statutory and case law
decisions which indicate and I don't intend
to repeat them again for the sake of brevity,
but that religious use includes more than
one structure itself, but can include acces-
sory structures for the purpose of conducting
religious activities: such as a school, rec-
tory, and a church could have a convent, a
rectory, a playground, a parking lot, and
other facilities, accessories, that are nec-
essary for the religious activities to be
conducted, and in addition I am calling to
the Board's attention that fact that since I
have not been provided all of the requested
items at the last meeting, that I be given
an opportunity to have a complete copy of
the 1963 ordinance that was not provided --
MR. MCMAHON: I personally went to the
various offices he is referring to within
the municipality, requesting a copy and in
fact I was provided various pages from the
'63 ordinance, but not an entire copy.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Sir, who did you
go to, may I ask?
0
M
-57-
MR. VENEZIA: You can get that from
Mr. McMahon.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: He may not have
gone to the right department.
MR. VENEZIA: I am making my statement
and I will support that with Mr. McMahon's
testimony, and provide those sections of the
'63 ordinance requiring special permits but
not those sections of the 163 ordinance in-
dicating what is necessary for the issuance
of the special permit, so therefore I cannot
comment on that, since I don't know what the
law is and I have not been provided a copy of
the law; I don't know even that there is a
*4ir
copy in the town in existence, and in addi-
tion to that, there is case law which has
been in this state for a number of years, in-
dicating that a town cannot provide arbitrary
and capricious requirements for issuance of
special permits, and even in countering indi-
cations from adjoining landowners indicating
that there could be congestion and fire hazards
and health hazards and inconveniences, that
the town has the requirement and obligation
i
con
legislate and dictate reasonable require-
ments for issuance of the special permit.
Yet I have not been provided those parameters
and can no longer counter the comments on
that. And it is strange that the '63 ord-
inance does not exist in the town and
there is nothing further at this time ex-
cept to elicit from Mr. McMahon to find out
what efforts were made to get the ordinance.
Would you tell the Board, Mr. McMahon?
MR. MCMAHON: Basically, I went all
over this building and asked everybody.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: What individuals
were --
MR. CORTELLINO; What individuals did
you ask?
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Name names. That is
the only thing I can go by.
MR. MCMAHON: One guy is gone; Jim
Tennelli--
MR. CORTELLINO: Did you go to Hans
Gunderud?
MR. MCMAHON: Yes, I went to Hans and
he only had one copy of his own.
-59 -
MR. CORTELLINO: Did you ask him to
COPY it for you?
MR. MCMAHON: Yes, I asked Hans for
that copy.
MR. CORTELLINO: I asked you, did you
ask him for a copy of it?
*r►
MR. MCMAHON: Did I say to Hans come
in Friday and stay here Sunday and Monday
and give me the copy? No, I said Hans give
me a copy, I don't have one, and he said I
don't have one but I will give you what you
want out of the one I have, and he gave me
certain pages.
MR. CORTELLINO: You didn't know what
,,
you wanted but he gave you what you wanted?
MR. VENEZIA: Did you ask for the 163 --
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Did you ask specif-
ically of Hans to give you --
MR. MCMAHON: Hans did not give me
what I requested. That was the picture.
MR. VENEZIA: Did you ask for the en-
tire ordinance?
MR. MCMAHON: Certainly.
MR. CORTELLINO: Did he, Hans?
In
11
MR. GUNDERUD,: On a number of occasions.
MR. MCMAHON: There was a lady sitting
in the front as you walk in the door, and I
said-- I don't know her name, but as you walk
in the door-- and I said please provide me
with a copy, a set, and she said I will,
and she went back and asked somebody there
and then said I should see Hans, and he was
not there that day, and she went in and bor-
rowed Hans' copy, that way, you know, and
looked in the cabinet or whatever, I don't
know where, and said, I don't have one but
here is what I have. It's Hans', and I will
give you a copy of anything you want, and then
went downstairs and went inside and-- the
point is there was none as far as they can
determine.
MR. GUNDERUD: The prior zoning ordin-
ance has been superseded by the 1980 zoning
ordinance, and there may be copies available
of the 163 ordinance in the Town Hall that I
was not aware of, if they are there., But i
did state to you, I think, that Mr. McMahon's
daughter came down and that we made a copy
-61 -
available to anybody who would wish one,
had to come down and could read the copy and
it would be available, but in the meantime
his daughter was making a trip to Monroe or
that vicinity and needed the copies like,
within ten minutes, and I said alright, I
will make you copies of the pertinent parts.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Fine.
MR. GUNDERUD: And that is how it occur-
red.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Thank you. Any-
body else against the appeal, please come
forward. Seeing and hearing none, we will
now close that appeal.
MR. CABELLERO: May I make a motion that
appeal 714 be closed?
MR. URCIUOLI: Second.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: All in favor say
aye.
(UNANIMOUS "AYE".)
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: There is a question
from one of the Board members. Mr. Urciuoli.
MR. URCIUOLI: The purpose of a Board
is not to determine your faith religiously
-62 -
as to whether it is proper or not proper or
Roman Catholic or Jewish or what; the pur-
pose of this meeting is simply to determine
whether a Special Use Permit should be gran-
ted, and this whole dissertation that we went
through for the past hour and twenty minutes
*W has done nothing but confuse what originally
was a pretty clear issue. So to give the
Board time to sift through everything, I make
a motion to table this until next month.
MR. CABELLERO: Seconded.
MR. MCMAHON: May I say something? One
thing. The request, in my eyeballs, was a
Special Use Permit, and that apparently people
in this town that can do that I'm looking
at them, talking to them, and therefore I
filled out everything that Hans asked me to,
and anything I didn't understand I said "Hans,
what do I do now?" And he told me. And Hans
told me. And I filled it out. And the only
unfortunate thing was that Hans said "maybe
you should get an attorney", and I did. I
didn't understand then, and I'm glad he told
ltw me, because the point is here. Here's the
point. Here's the point. That is, to me a
relatively simple thing, request, that's
being asked for, and all we need is your ap-
proval, that's my understanding. Am I right?
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Somewhat you are,
yes. This is a public hearing, and other
Public hearings will follow yours, and they
are to gather the facts, and now that we have
the facts a motion was made.
MR. MCMAHON: But I heard nothing. Evil
night. Do you see what I'm saying? There is
a batch of people here and you can see those
people who seem to have all said the same
thing or kept their mouths shut, one or the
'fir
other, and on that basis it seems to me that
you folks have not asked anything that you have
not gotten answers to, so that says to me that
YOU must agree with the people.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: Sir, that is your
interpretation. This hearing is closed.
MR. CORTELLINO: I move the question.
MR. URCIUOLI: Yes, everybody spoke to
the issues, but in between that, sir, there
is a lot of legal jargon going back and forth
R
ci
IM
-64-
and I want it understood for that purpose I
asked it to be tabled for a month.
MR. CORTELLINO: I move the question.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: All in favor?
(UNANIMOUS "AYE".)
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: So moved. This
appeal is adjourned till next month. We do
not know the date yet; you will be notified
in the mail. Thank you.
(SOME UNIDENTIFIED PEOPLE ADDRESSED
THE BOARD.)
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: This is not a
popularity contest.
MR. CORTELLINO: We serve at the dis-
1%r cretion of the Town Board, and the main pur-
pose of the Zoning Board is recognizing in-
justices can occur under the Zoning Ordinance,
and if and when these occur we evaluate a
specific incident or instance and grant or
not grant variances. We cannot change the
Zoning Ordinance; that is for the Town Board.
That is the Town Board's function, but par-
ticular issues we can address and come to a
decision on. The function of the Zoning
n
V9
-65-
Board is to grant relief to property owners,
not to give property owners license to do
whatever they wish to. The Town Board has
set up the Zoning Ordinance and administrators
to enforce that. If something comes up and
there is a dispute, as to what the zoning
administrator says, they appeal to us. We
will adjudicate the facts and decide whether
the ordinance is unusually harsh in this par-
ticular case, and then will grant a variance
or Special Use Permit.
CHAIRMAN LANDOLFI: This appeal is
closed. We will now go on to the next appeal.
(UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKERS ADDRESSED THE
BOARD . )
Dated: February 6th, 1984.
r
I HEREBY CERTIFY, THAT:
The foregoing is -a true
and accurate transcript
of my stenographic min-
utes tkken in the above
hearing,
PHI PE.-ST3LLERMAN, RPR